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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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Jean Steinberg so last week we had a

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fascinating change of pace here in the

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para cast we had William hall he was

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talking about this rather involved

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poltergeist case in Connecticut back in

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1974 and I remember back in 1974 I was

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the news director of a radio station in

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Pennsylvania and we were chasing UFOs

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but we never got much around to chasing

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haunted houses in those years

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very far I mean they don't have legs

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that won't run away

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well they just come to you assuming you

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live in the wrong place we did live in

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an old row house in Coatesville

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Pennsylvania two-story row house and one

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time we saw something that my first wife

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Geneva called a water elemental sometime

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around 3 o'clock in the morning why did

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things always happen at 3 o'clock in the

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morning well you know it was a water

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elemental that was her interpretation oh

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okay and she says to me did you see that

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that's a water elemental now when I go

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to sleep I'm not wearing contact lenses

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I'm not wearing my eyeglasses

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I've been myopic rather severely since I

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was like 12 years old so therefore I

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just saw like a blur a blur or a shadow

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and we did have a dog a little white dog

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named Ellie at the time a Spitz and it

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couldn't be the dog because it was much

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taller unless Ellie kind of grew up at

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night when we were asleep but that's the

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only thing I ever saw that was weird up

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as I said this is a pretty old row house

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probably dating back I don't know the

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20s or 30s so it must have had a

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fascinating history to it but we knew

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nothing about it

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we've just rented it from a fellow who

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worked at the steel mill in Coatesville

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of course that steel mill is longer

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going far away but that's another story

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anyway that's my encounter with

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something allegedly spiritual but I

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really enjoy the book and I enjoyed the

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session with William hall and I know

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that we had a lot of really interesting

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listener reaction to it but a lot of

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what you see in here there of course

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depends on one's eyewitness testimony

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and we're gonna ask our guest Bruce

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Maccabee a bit later about the value of

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eyewitness testimony but when it comes

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to seeing ghosts witnessing poltergeist

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phenomena when it comes to watching

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somebody get shot by a police officer as

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they did in Ferguson Missouri a lot of

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what transpired first depends on

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eyewitness testimony of course with

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something that where a crime is involved

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for a potential crime you do have

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forensic evidence but you're still

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depending for your basic account on

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eyewitness testimony when you have a UFO

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and people see something in the sky or

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lands there's eyewitness testimony and

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the more I'm reading about the Ferguson

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II incident Kris it shows how unreliable

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eyewitness testimony is stories were all

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over the place no the officer shot the

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young man from the front from the back

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he was close he was far and then there

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was an article in The Washington Post

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about the problems with eyewitness

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testimony pointing out that there's this

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group a non-profit group called the

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Innocence Project and what they do is

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they look into cases where people were

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allegedly convictive crimes they may not

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have committed they look at the evidence

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and they pointed out that in about a

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third of the cases where people were

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found innocent of the crime of which

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they were committed they depended in

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large part on eyewitness testimony and

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that eyewitness testimony was found to

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be extremely flawed so the question is

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here of course Kris and you're someone

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who's done so much investigation to what

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degree can we depend on what people

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think they saw well you know you have

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the the double difficulty of eyewitness

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testimony of an unusual - totally

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paradigm-shifting

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event sometimes witnesses when they see

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something you know horrific like a

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murder or something that really shakes

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them to their core you would think that

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that that would be emblazoned in their

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mind accurately and I think sometimes

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the opposite happens it makes people

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more confused it just rocks their

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worldview because of the event and they

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have a very very difficult time I think

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piecing together the sequence of events

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duration is something that I've seen

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often times sometimes it gets elongated

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sometimes a mere few seconds seems like

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many minutes but sometimes the opposite

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sometimes you have time compression

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where a longer event appears to flash by

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in a matter of seconds so you know it's

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there's no real rhyme or reason of how

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the human brain cognizes and processes

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information during you know a a

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startling event and I would think that a

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UFO society would obviously fall into

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that category so I've mentioned a number

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of times on the show that I've had

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multiple witness events where

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descriptions are generally fairly

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consistent but the duration especially

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is sequence of events what happened

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first what happened second then what

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then what these things oftentimes get

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turned around jumbled up it's amazing

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you can take people separately and

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interview them and then compare notes

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you can come up with a with a fairly I

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think accurate generalization about an

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event in terms of sequence events and

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duration but sometimes it's hard to

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figure out because because things are so

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all over the map you know this is always

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going to be a problem that's why I have

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been champion for years hard data

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research with triangulated camera arrays

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that that can't get this information

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wrong you know we're gonna have to ask

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today's guests what he thinks about the

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future of ufology and in whether we can

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rely on eyewitness testimony as opposed

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to actually you know relying on on

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scientific instrumentation which I think

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obviously is the way to go well one

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thing mentioned in this Washington Post

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article is that people of course are not

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photographic machines and they make

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assumptions they fill in missing

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details and a lot of times when someone

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thinks they saw something some of those

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details were inferred were assumed or

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they got those details from somebody

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else so somebody else mentions did you

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notice that I noticed this here I

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noticed how the object made a u-turn now

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what witness never saw the u-turn but

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they'll assume it must have been true

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because somebody told them that so it's

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a matter of not just of seeing the event

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recording the event but making

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assumptions based on what you hear what

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you read and that takes us back to any

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case that is removed by a number of

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years or decades how do you get an

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accurate picture of what people saw of

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course that takes us back to cases like

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Roswell right where we had the original

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story and then we had memories of what

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happened that go back 30 years yeah

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decades decades how do you know what

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happened especially if you're

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remembering something when you were ten

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or twelve years old oh my dad brought

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home this fragment of something and it

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seemed to be flexible and what was it

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well we can argue about that until the

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end of time what and I'm sure we will

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never ends so we're going to do

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something here with our episodes of the

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podcast where we're going to go back

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through history and begin to paint a

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picture of the FBI CIA UFO connection

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how are these agencies involved how they

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interacted with each other we have dr.

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Bruce Maccabee who has written really an

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entertaining book I didn't start reading

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until fairly late but it's the kind of

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book that is as Leslie Kane said in a

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review of it a page-turner it really is

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it's a well-written book it's easy to go

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through it's not something that the

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prose is dull and distracting it just

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takes you through the story and a lot of

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fascinating things to discuss and we'll

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ask dr. Maccabee about the accuracy of

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eyewitness testimony

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a reminder folks it's here now para cast

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plus you get the ad-free version of the

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power cast get a higher resolution copy

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better listening experience it's 5 bucks

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a month for admission to our top-secret

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download area speaking of top-secret we

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have a little fledgling chat room we'll

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be adding more stuff as we go on to

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learn more go to + . ^ cast comm PL us

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dot the para cast comm and I even made

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it work if you just go + dot para cast

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com it works that way too you can check

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out how to sign up and we look forward

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to your subscription dr. Bruce Maccabee

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is coming up next with gene and Chris

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you're in the para cos so here's what

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happened I was placing an order online

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the site went down it took hours before

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it returned but I'd already placed the

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order with another company if your site

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goes down you could lose business and if

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you have a business or personal site

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you'll want to know it's easy to run and

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it will stay online at iWeb your site is

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hosted on one of the most reliable

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networks in the world talk to a sales

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rep at a web.com use the promo code tech

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night out for a special discount first

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game attack of the rock codes and it was

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a critically acclaimed success and now

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there's the coming of the protectors a

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former military intelligence man is

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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

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because evil forces on our distant

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planet are planning to conquer the earth

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this is gripping science fiction of the

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classic kind attack of the rock OIG's

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and the coming of the protectors find

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out more at rockets calm that's rock oh

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it's our Ock oids calm

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myk's dinners and fremitus resources and

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no time in history have precious metals

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been more important certainly not in my

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22 years in the industry the dollar has

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lost over 90% of its value in the last

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60 years

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no fiat currency has ever survived the

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government printing presses ours is not

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immune the time is now to be proactive

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1-866 to 237 extension 1 1 6 anything

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tied to the dollar is at risk

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CDs annuities 401 k's IRA stocks bonds

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you name it so decide do you want to

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leave a legacy of wealth or debt for

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your family the choice is yours call me

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at one eight hundred six eight six two

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237 extension one one six that's one

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eight hundred six eight six two two

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three seven extension one one six be

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proactive not reactive

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[Music]

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as it was the first day we sold it a

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healthy heart is a happy heart call

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eight six six two nine five 5305 or go

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to HP extract calm do you have relatives

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and friends that are convinced there is

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no need ever to prepare for any kind of

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emergency are these also folks you buy

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Christmas presents for at thirty day

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food supply calm we can solve both of

274
00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:11,950
these problems at the same time go to 30

275
00:13:17,070 --> 00:13:14,200
day food supply calm or call five four

276
00:13:18,690 --> 00:13:17,080
one two two nine zero zero ten we can

277
00:13:21,570 --> 00:13:18,700
ship your Christmas presents directly to

278
00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:21,580
them choose from our original $99 30 day

279
00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:23,710
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280
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:25,600
burger mixes and other oatmeal soups

281
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282
00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:28,120
use

283
00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:30,700
all products are non-gmo MSG free and

284
00:13:35,310 --> 00:13:32,710
vegetarian most are gluten soy and nut

285
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286
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:37,810
zero ten today Oregon Trail foods and

287
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:40,210
30-day food supply calm keep prices low

288
00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:41,650
cutting out the middleman by buying

289
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:43,540
directly from their producers in Oregon

290
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:45,370
remember only ten dollars ships your

291
00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:47,170
entire order to the lower 48

292
00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:49,270
visit the website thirty day food supply

293
00:13:54,390 --> 00:13:51,790
calm call five four one two two nine

294
00:13:57,450 --> 00:13:54,400
zero zero ten thirty day food supply

295
00:14:03,210 --> 00:13:57,460
calm by four one two two nine zero zero

296
00:14:04,860 --> 00:14:03,220
ten we'd like to hear from you if you

297
00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:04,870
have a comment or question about the

298
00:14:23,749 --> 00:14:06,089
para cast

299
00:14:25,759 --> 00:14:23,759
we have dr. Bruce Maccabee returning to

300
00:14:27,519 --> 00:14:25,769
the para cast of course we've covered a

301
00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:27,529
lot of his research over the years

302
00:14:32,739 --> 00:14:30,089
involvement in the Gulf Breeze case and

303
00:14:35,749 --> 00:14:32,749
others his latest book written for

304
00:14:39,129 --> 00:14:35,759
Richard Dolan press it's Richard Dolan's

305
00:14:43,730 --> 00:14:39,139
new publishing company is called the FBI

306
00:14:45,379 --> 00:14:43,740
CIA UFO connection and now I'm sure

307
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:45,389
implies a lot when you read the book

308
00:14:51,650 --> 00:14:49,050
you're gonna see how he discovers what

309
00:14:54,170 --> 00:14:51,660
these agencies did separately possibly

310
00:14:55,689 --> 00:14:54,180
together what they know about UFOs and

311
00:14:58,910 --> 00:14:55,699
maybe some of the decisions they've made

312
00:15:00,739 --> 00:14:58,920
so dr. Maccabee welcome to the parent

313
00:15:03,019 --> 00:15:00,749
cast again and I want to get started

314
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:03,029
like in the real early days the real

315
00:15:08,780 --> 00:15:05,850
early history here with regard to the

316
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:08,790
government agencies and UFOs so we

317
00:15:14,030 --> 00:15:11,730
obviously expected as was true that the

318
00:15:15,919 --> 00:15:14,040
Air Force was involved some people were

319
00:15:18,319 --> 00:15:15,929
surprised to see the Navy being involved

320
00:15:21,169 --> 00:15:18,329
in UFO research certainly intelligence

321
00:15:25,869 --> 00:15:21,179
agencies but why the FBI why would the

322
00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:28,519
and it hasn't been for a number of years

323
00:15:33,410 --> 00:15:31,470
but the reason they got involved was at

324
00:15:36,889 --> 00:15:33,420
the request of the Air Force this whole

325
00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:36,899
mess started in when Kenneth Harold I

326
00:15:42,650 --> 00:15:39,929
decided in June 24th of 1947 and then

327
00:15:45,049 --> 00:15:42,660
that was publicized on June 25th 1947

328
00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:45,059
after which there were numerous reports

329
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:47,160
of sightings something happened before

330
00:15:51,199 --> 00:15:49,170
Carol's and hundreds it happened

331
00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:51,209
afterwards there was a big explosion of

332
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:54,120
sightings a year early July the first

333
00:15:58,400 --> 00:15:56,220
week of July I don't know if anybody

334
00:16:02,269 --> 00:15:58,410
knows exactly how many sightings were in

335
00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:02,279
this first slap in 1947 flap but Ted

336
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:04,350
Rocher head of look for a book called a

337
00:16:09,980 --> 00:16:07,649
1947 flap and wish he had 800 sightings

338
00:16:12,650 --> 00:16:09,990
and people since then and I looked up

339
00:16:15,530 --> 00:16:12,660
other newspaper stories and estimator

340
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:15,540
cousin well over a thousand reports in a

341
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:17,759
period of a couple of weeks and of

342
00:16:19,290 --> 00:16:18,959
course some of the people in other

343
00:16:22,139 --> 00:16:19,300
witness

344
00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:22,149
were Air Force people themselves you

345
00:16:27,889 --> 00:16:24,670
have to take a split view of this

346
00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:27,899
situation and early July there's Raziel

347
00:16:33,570 --> 00:16:31,540
ignores the Roswell case why ignore the

348
00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:33,580
lhasa case because it's never been

349
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:35,380
absolutely conclusively proven although

350
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,170
it is in principle possible to find

351
00:16:41,940 --> 00:16:40,240
somewhere the hardware you say yes it

352
00:16:43,019 --> 00:16:41,950
was real so you can look at from the

353
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:43,029
point of view that there wasn't a

354
00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:45,130
Roswell or you can look at it from the

355
00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:46,420
point of view there were other as well

356
00:16:51,060 --> 00:16:48,670
and as I said if you do that you're

357
00:16:54,060 --> 00:16:51,070
basing your arguments on information

358
00:16:57,090 --> 00:16:54,070
that we can't confirm so I stick mostly

359
00:16:59,100 --> 00:16:57,100
to the non Roswell interpretation while

360
00:17:00,990 --> 00:16:59,110
pointing out in the book but that does

361
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:01,000
not mean and I think Roswell is nothing

362
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:03,610
I think it would actually happened I'm

363
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:05,890
not using it at all to make the

364
00:17:10,110 --> 00:17:07,689
arguments that I do in the book so

365
00:17:12,410 --> 00:17:10,120
anyway in the eighth to the July there

366
00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:12,420
were sightings at Edwards Air Force Base

367
00:17:19,230 --> 00:17:16,030
ome Rock Air Force Base in the state of

368
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:19,240
California at this point according to

369
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:22,510
rule belts book report on unidentified

370
00:17:25,980 --> 00:17:24,730
flying objects this is when the Air

371
00:17:28,350 --> 00:17:25,990
Force really took an interest in the

372
00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:28,360
subject two days later on a tenth of

373
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:31,809
July the Air Force contacted the FBI the

374
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:33,730
Air Force was told the FBI that they

375
00:17:40,290 --> 00:17:37,450
were using all I scientists and to run

376
00:17:42,299 --> 00:17:40,300
down these reports of strange objects

377
00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:42,309
flying through the sky they wanted the

378
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,830
FBI to in the interview witnesses to

379
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,240
find out it was any possibility of

380
00:17:51,390 --> 00:17:48,640
communist subversion going on the

381
00:17:52,830 --> 00:17:51,400
communist aspect would be that communist

382
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:52,840
sympathizers would generate serious

383
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:55,450
reports of sightings to make the

384
00:17:59,060 --> 00:17:57,490
American people feel that the our own

385
00:18:01,680 --> 00:17:59,070
Air Force couldn't handle a situation

386
00:18:04,049 --> 00:18:01,690
some sort of a threat that we couldn't

387
00:18:06,419 --> 00:18:04,059
manage maybe even give the impression

388
00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:06,429
that the Soviet Union was flying flying

389
00:18:11,820 --> 00:18:09,070
the saucers or the United States pending

390
00:18:13,650 --> 00:18:11,830
right it looked like something the FBI

391
00:18:16,169 --> 00:18:13,660
could get into because of the idea of

392
00:18:17,970 --> 00:18:16,179
communist subversives being involved and

393
00:18:20,460 --> 00:18:17,980
so the Air Force actually FBI are

394
00:18:22,169 --> 00:18:20,470
interviewing witnesses and essentially

395
00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:22,179
decide whether they were faking it or

396
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:24,280
reporting true sightings by the end of

397
00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:27,970
July Hoover had sent a memo on to the

398
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:29,590
special agents in charge at various

399
00:18:33,749 --> 00:18:30,910
areas in the United States each state

400
00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:33,759
had at least one person

401
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:36,849
you should if you come upon a sighting

402
00:18:40,469 --> 00:18:38,710
you should interview the witnesses and

403
00:18:42,389 --> 00:18:40,479
send the information to headquarters FBI

404
00:18:44,339 --> 00:18:42,399
into the air force because of the fact

405
00:18:45,810 --> 00:18:44,349
that the FBI was directed by Congress

406
00:18:49,139 --> 00:18:45,820
and never to throw anything away

407
00:18:50,489 --> 00:18:49,149
that is a headquarters FBI anything that

408
00:18:53,099 --> 00:18:50,499
made it into headquarters was stayed

409
00:18:55,229 --> 00:18:53,109
there like a black hole information went

410
00:18:57,239 --> 00:18:55,239
in and nothing came out local FBI

411
00:19:00,149 --> 00:18:57,249
officers had a five or ten year rule

412
00:19:06,060 --> 00:19:00,159
they could destroy stuff but not the

413
00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:06,070
headquarters in 1977 1976 1976 when I

414
00:19:10,580 --> 00:19:07,929
filed the Freedom of Information Act

415
00:19:13,950 --> 00:19:10,590
request actually I was interested in the

416
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:13,960
the Trent case I was working on at the

417
00:19:16,830 --> 00:19:14,559
time

418
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:16,840
the Trent Sorrell cases linguas Oregon

419
00:19:22,619 --> 00:19:20,799
1950 and I had found out that a mr.

420
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:22,629
Trent claimed the FBI has visited him

421
00:19:26,909 --> 00:19:24,720
early work well I thought well maybe

422
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:26,919
with a Freedom of Information Act

423
00:19:33,149 --> 00:19:31,690
available in 1975 or a 676 I thought

424
00:19:34,849 --> 00:19:33,159
maybe I could get some information on

425
00:19:37,619 --> 00:19:34,859
whether or not treasure to actually been

426
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:37,629
contacted by the FBI so I wrote a letter

427
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:41,919
in September of 76 to the FBI and asked

428
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:45,039
if they had any records on Paul a Trent

429
00:19:51,599 --> 00:19:49,840
Greenville Oregon palace all oh by the

430
00:19:53,639 --> 00:19:51,609
way if you have anything else on UFOs

431
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:53,649
please let me know I didn't expect to

432
00:19:58,649 --> 00:19:56,320
get much of anything because again

433
00:20:01,049 --> 00:19:58,659
referring to Ed Ruggiero Pelt book the

434
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:01,059
report on unidentified flying objects he

435
00:20:07,349 --> 00:20:03,299
said the FBI had never been involved

436
00:20:09,629 --> 00:20:07,359
that's what he wrote so based on that I

437
00:20:13,649 --> 00:20:09,639
didn't expect to get anything about six

438
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:13,659
months later in the spring of 1977 I got

439
00:20:19,950 --> 00:20:17,529
a phone call from a very surprised FBI

440
00:20:22,139 --> 00:20:19,960
agent he said over a thousand pages it

441
00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:22,149
would turn out to be 1,600 pages of

442
00:20:27,690 --> 00:20:23,950
information in the FBI file

443
00:20:31,859 --> 00:20:27,700
radda that was a copy of newspaper

444
00:20:34,049 --> 00:20:31,869
articles and internal memoranda copies

445
00:20:36,299 --> 00:20:34,059
and stuff but in any case there was a

446
00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:36,309
pile of data there which no one had ever

447
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:39,070
seen till I saw even the FBI agent

448
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:40,330
himself was surprised

449
00:20:46,770 --> 00:20:43,330
FBI had done anything on UFOs or flying

450
00:20:48,510 --> 00:20:46,780
saucers so when I got these documents

451
00:20:50,730 --> 00:20:48,520
I started reading through and comparing

452
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:50,740
stuff with a what was then the known

453
00:20:59,250 --> 00:20:54,850
history mostly based on repeal but what

454
00:21:02,430 --> 00:20:59,260
the horse was doing I found some things

455
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:02,440
in the FBI file or Air Force but the Air

456
00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:05,170
Force was doing without it didn't appear

457
00:21:09,690 --> 00:21:07,480
in the Air Force file on this subject

458
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:09,700
via the so-called Blue Book file which

459
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:12,910
includes documents the start in the late

460
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:15,610
nineteen forty seven playing starting in

461
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:18,130
1947 going on which let me just

462
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:19,840
interrupt here for a few minutes here

463
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:22,090
which kind of surprises me here we have

464
00:21:26,130 --> 00:21:24,370
Captain Edward ruppelt the head of

465
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:26,140
Project Blue Book this is the agency

466
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:29,770
that's supposedly investigating UFOs but

467
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:31,870
he doesn't indicate in his book that the

468
00:21:37,260 --> 00:21:34,290
FBI had this rather big and

469
00:21:39,690 --> 00:21:37,270
investigative involvement understand

470
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:39,700
that repeal didn't get involved himself

471
00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:42,730
until the latter 1951 and by that time

472
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:44,440
the FBI had been out of it for a couple

473
00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:46,960
of years yes vir they only investigated

474
00:21:50,790 --> 00:21:48,460
for a couple of months about two dozen

475
00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:50,800
witnesses and then they got a document

476
00:21:55,740 --> 00:21:53,740
from an Air Force person so leaked to

477
00:21:57,450 --> 00:21:55,750
the FBI I guess saying that the real

478
00:22:00,480 --> 00:21:57,460
reason the FBI had been brought in was

479
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:00,490
to handle the cases of ashcan covers and

480
00:22:05,610 --> 00:22:02,170
toilet seats in other words the hoax

481
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:05,620
cases and when we learned that he said

482
00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:07,360
okay well we're not doing this anymore

483
00:22:11,550 --> 00:22:09,190
any directors of special agents in

484
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:11,560
charge if they come upon any information

485
00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:13,690
on flying saucers to a Senate

486
00:22:17,130 --> 00:22:15,070
immediately to the Air Force and don't

487
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,140
do an investigation we're going to add

488
00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:19,360
something special to the parent cast

489
00:22:25,860 --> 00:22:23,080
plus it's a new podcast called after the

490
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:25,870
para casts with color commentary that's

491
00:22:31,770 --> 00:22:28,450
after the power cast it's available only

492
00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:31,780
if you subscribe to the para cast plus

493
00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:35,680
go to plus dr. para cast calm that's PLU

494
00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:39,220
s stock the power cast calm with gene

495
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:41,470
and Chris and dr. Bruce Maccabee you're

496
00:22:52,419 --> 00:22:49,269
[Music]

497
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:52,429
America's largest independently owned

498
00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:00,480
communications network gene C is there a

499
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:03,750
secret UFO agenda to strange creatures

500
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:05,730
from the darkest corners of the mind

501
00:23:11,419 --> 00:23:08,370
roam the earth is there evidence for

502
00:23:14,269 --> 00:23:11,429
mind control time travel or devious

503
00:23:16,539 --> 00:23:14,279
government conspiracies find out the

504
00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:16,549
inside scoop on the latest conspiracies

505
00:23:21,379 --> 00:23:19,110
paranormal activity and important

506
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:21,389
phenomena when you subscribe to Tim

507
00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:23,850
Beckley's conspiracy girl it's

508
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:26,700
jam-packed with stories special book and

509
00:23:31,580 --> 00:23:29,370
DVD promotions and the best news it's

510
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:31,590
absolutely free sent right to your

511
00:23:38,419 --> 00:23:34,710
mailbox plus a bonus free email

512
00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:38,429
newsletter sent out every Friday simply

513
00:23:45,230 --> 00:23:40,289
sent an email with your name and address

514
00:23:51,049 --> 00:23:45,240
to Mister UFO at what TV net attached

515
00:23:53,810 --> 00:23:51,059
mr. UFO at web TV net find out what they

516
00:23:59,870 --> 00:23:53,820
don't want you to know

517
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,820
this alert just came in this special

518
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:04,720
announcement is for business owners and

519
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,910
leaders of organizations who've been

520
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:09,120
waiting for the right time to build

521
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:11,770
general steel has made it impossible to

522
00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:13,570
wait any longer with rock-bottom prices

523
00:24:18,060 --> 00:24:15,820
that could save you thousands that's

524
00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:18,070
right general steel America's leader in

525
00:24:22,110 --> 00:24:20,230
pre engineered structures is offering

526
00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:22,120
buildings at prices you will never see

527
00:24:27,690 --> 00:24:24,580
again don't miss these prices of 50 by

528
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:27,700
100 for $35,000 you heard right that's

529
00:24:31,890 --> 00:24:30,130
5000 square feet for $35,000

530
00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:31,900
manufacturers if you need a larger

531
00:24:35,490 --> 00:24:34,150
building try a 100 by 100 commercial

532
00:24:37,409 --> 00:24:35,500
building for a hundred and twenty nine

533
00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:37,419
thousand you can't afford to rent with

534
00:24:41,340 --> 00:24:39,820
these prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot

535
00:24:43,169 --> 00:24:41,350
church building for under sixty nine

536
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:43,179
thousand dollars with the economy

537
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:45,130
improving and interest rates still at

538
00:24:51,539 --> 00:24:47,290
historic lows you can't afford to wait

539
00:24:55,650 --> 00:24:51,549
so call 866 91 steel lock in your price

540
00:25:02,159 --> 00:24:55,660
now call 866 91 steel that's eight six

541
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:02,169
six nine one seven 83 35 people maintain

542
00:25:05,490 --> 00:25:03,760
optimal health I'd like to tell you

543
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:05,500
about my choices the powerful anti-aging

544
00:25:09,870 --> 00:25:07,690
antioxidant formula that also helps

545
00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:09,880
reduce damage caused by radiation see

546
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:11,350
radical contains two cordon and there

547
00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:13,090
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548
00:25:15,930 --> 00:25:14,110
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549
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550
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551
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555
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556
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557
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558
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559
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560
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561
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562
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563
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564
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seen anything like it after rubbing a

565
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566
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567
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568
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569
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570
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571
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572
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573
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574
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:08,260
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575
00:26:11,010 --> 00:26:08,770
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576
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577
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578
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579
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:18,490
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580
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581
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00:26:26,820 --> 00:26:23,950
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583
00:26:27,930 --> 00:26:26,830
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584
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585
00:26:32,850 --> 00:26:30,430
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586
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00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:35,800
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588
00:26:40,110 --> 00:26:37,630
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589
00:26:42,690 --> 00:26:40,120
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00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:42,700
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00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,120
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592
00:26:50,970 --> 00:26:48,640
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593
00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:50,980
in the top right corner and enter code

594
00:27:07,800 --> 00:26:54,550
plow that's proflowers.com click the mic

595
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:07,810
and enter code PLO w this is actually a

596
00:27:23,610 --> 00:27:11,410
you listening to the podcast the gold

597
00:27:29,890 --> 00:27:27,070
we're tracing here the FBI's involvement

598
00:27:32,020 --> 00:27:29,900
and UFO research until J Edgar Hoover

599
00:27:35,410 --> 00:27:32,030
pulled the plug with dr. Bruce Maccabee

600
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:35,420
and his book just out earlier this year

601
00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:39,530
is the FBI CIA UFO connection and we're

602
00:27:48,010 --> 00:27:42,470
exploring the FBI's involvement now

603
00:27:50,650 --> 00:27:48,020
after Hoover said yet two UFOs did the

604
00:27:53,470 --> 00:27:50,660
FBI give it up or do they continue what

605
00:27:54,850 --> 00:27:53,480
well the FBI stopped investigating

606
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,860
witnesses but that didn't mean that they

607
00:27:58,120 --> 00:27:56,960
stopped being a black hole turned out

608
00:28:00,100 --> 00:27:58,130
that once they had established this

609
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:00,110
liaison between the FBI and the Air

610
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:02,510
Force the Air Force often provided the

611
00:28:07,690 --> 00:28:05,090
FBI with information and here's the real

612
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:07,700
value of the FBI file and why I wrote a

613
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:08,720
book about it

614
00:28:14,170 --> 00:28:11,840
the FBI was told things that the

615
00:28:16,570 --> 00:28:14,180
American people weren't the FBI had a

616
00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:16,580
window on the Air Force activities were

617
00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:19,910
doing combining FBI files with the Air

618
00:28:24,850 --> 00:28:22,100
Force intelligence files that we learn

619
00:28:28,420 --> 00:28:24,860
things like there was a big confusion

620
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:28,430
southern over how to explain reports and

621
00:28:35,290 --> 00:28:31,760
that confusion turns up in the FBI file

622
00:28:38,290 --> 00:28:35,300
where they see the Air Force blowing ha

623
00:28:40,930 --> 00:28:38,300
alternately blowing hot and cold on the

624
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:40,940
UFO subject as it turns up in yes and

625
00:28:46,810 --> 00:28:43,490
the FBI file and you see some of it in

626
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:46,820
the CIA CIA file to the Air Force lied

627
00:28:52,990 --> 00:28:50,210
to the CIA about the possibility of

628
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:53,000
interplanetary ships they can lie to the

629
00:28:57,730 --> 00:28:55,370
CIA let's be more specific about that

630
00:29:00,850 --> 00:28:57,740
why do you lie to the CIA that's got to

631
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,860
be pretty interesting itself again

632
00:29:04,990 --> 00:29:02,480
there's a lot of details are going to

633
00:29:07,930 --> 00:29:05,000
this which are in the book but basically

634
00:29:09,460 --> 00:29:07,940
the CIA didn't really get interested in

635
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:09,470
the subject as far as the documents are

636
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:11,810
concerned until a lot of the big flap in

637
00:29:18,910 --> 00:29:16,010
1952 and specifically after the

638
00:29:21,310 --> 00:29:18,920
Washington DC slaps that led to press

639
00:29:23,890 --> 00:29:21,320
conference where general Stanford the

640
00:29:27,070 --> 00:29:23,900
director of intelligence of the Air

641
00:29:29,870 --> 00:29:27,080
Force basically said there were credible

642
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:29,880
people making incredible reports

643
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:31,440
but as far as he was concerned it was

644
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:34,080
all natural phenomena at that point

645
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:36,930
there had been literally hundreds o

646
00:29:41,420 --> 00:29:39,330
sightings over the previous four or five

647
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:41,430
weeks so many that just about every

648
00:29:46,370 --> 00:29:42,720
newspaper in the United States would

649
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,380
carry at least one sighting report and

650
00:29:51,650 --> 00:29:49,440
this was a too much for the other guys

651
00:29:55,220 --> 00:29:51,660
the head of the CIA at the time he

652
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:55,230
directed his his people to evaluate the

653
00:29:59,600 --> 00:29:57,360
situation they went and talked to the

654
00:30:02,180 --> 00:29:59,610
air force at Wright Field a

655
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:02,190
wright-patterson Air Force Base and they

656
00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:05,520
were told that there was no possibility

657
00:30:10,550 --> 00:30:08,670
that interplanetary craft whatever you

658
00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:10,560
want to call it aliens was involved

659
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:14,580
that's not what they told the FBI the

660
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:17,490
FBI in 1952 but on the same day of this

661
00:30:22,610 --> 00:30:20,730
press conference July 29 1952 that the

662
00:30:24,890 --> 00:30:22,620
FBI was told that two or three percent

663
00:30:28,220 --> 00:30:24,900
of the sightings could not be explained

664
00:30:29,540 --> 00:30:28,230
and ten of the top generals at least

665
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:29,550
some of them were seriously considering

666
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:31,250
interplanetary ships is the explanation

667
00:30:35,390 --> 00:30:33,540
now general Sanford at his press

668
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:35,400
conferences said oh yeah we were

669
00:30:40,670 --> 00:30:38,250
considering interplanetary ships the lid

670
00:30:42,890 --> 00:30:40,680
would've blown off but he didn't his

671
00:30:43,670 --> 00:30:42,900
office told the FBI one thing while he

672
00:30:47,860 --> 00:30:43,680
was telling the American people

673
00:30:51,740 --> 00:30:47,870
something else to get to that point 1952

674
00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:51,750
there's a lot of history from 1947 to

675
00:30:56,690 --> 00:30:55,350
1950 to the history of things like I'm

676
00:30:58,900 --> 00:30:56,700
saying flying saucer sightings

677
00:31:03,680 --> 00:30:58,910
themselves by all sorts of people

678
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:03,690
including on duty military and the green

679
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:08,690
fireball saga starting in 1948 and the

680
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:12,090
project twinkle and the number of things

681
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:16,170
that lead up to my conclusion that the

682
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:19,470
Air Force top generals knew the flying

683
00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:21,810
saucers were extraterrestrial but they

684
00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:23,460
wouldn't allow that as an explanation

685
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:26,310
when it came to explaining sightings as

686
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:28,650
a matter of fact I'd date that to the

687
00:31:33,650 --> 00:31:29,850
rejection of the estimate the situation

688
00:31:35,090 --> 00:31:33,660
I don't know if everybody listening to

689
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:35,100
you would know what the estimate of the

690
00:31:38,660 --> 00:31:37,050
situation was you know why don't you

691
00:31:40,889 --> 00:31:38,670
define them we should also talk about

692
00:31:43,529 --> 00:31:40,899
the Robertson panel but

693
00:31:46,349 --> 00:31:43,539
have a third question kick in there but

694
00:31:49,529 --> 00:31:46,359
let's start with those two well this

695
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:49,539
stuff began in 1947 immediately the Air

696
00:31:54,209 --> 00:31:52,210
Force took an interest and began people

697
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:54,219
have right field was one the air

698
00:31:59,219 --> 00:31:55,690
technically came the air technical

699
00:32:02,219 --> 00:31:59,229
intelligence sensor technic t1 t2 and t3

700
00:32:04,289 --> 00:32:02,229
people at right field which was later

701
00:32:07,409 --> 00:32:04,299
the wright-patterson Air Force Base and

702
00:32:08,999 --> 00:32:07,419
Air Force intelligence in the Pentagon

703
00:32:11,099 --> 00:32:09,009
these are two intelligence groups

704
00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:11,109
working independently but on the same

705
00:32:18,570 --> 00:32:15,089
stuff and they were handed a bunch of

706
00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:18,580
documents via general I think the

707
00:32:23,849 --> 00:32:21,070
children was in charge of collection of

708
00:32:28,109 --> 00:32:23,859
their intelligence and he gave these

709
00:32:30,089 --> 00:32:28,119
documents to both and both agencies and

710
00:32:32,909 --> 00:32:30,099
here Air Force intelligence and the

711
00:32:36,479 --> 00:32:32,919
right field and apparently did their

712
00:32:39,419 --> 00:32:36,489
work now the Air Force intelligence

713
00:32:42,619 --> 00:32:39,429
people tried to force the sightings into

714
00:32:45,060 --> 00:32:42,629
an explanation based on Soviet

715
00:32:48,209 --> 00:32:45,070
improvements on German war research I

716
00:32:50,489 --> 00:32:48,219
said nothing about interplanetary but

717
00:32:54,959 --> 00:32:50,499
the yes nor the situation is the the

718
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:54,969
famous estimate was recounted by Edward

719
00:33:01,289 --> 00:32:57,279
repeal in his book he said he actually

720
00:33:03,329 --> 00:33:01,299
saw it that was written like people at

721
00:33:05,729 --> 00:33:03,339
Wakefield went up to the chain of

722
00:33:07,829 --> 00:33:05,739
command to general Vandenberg at which

723
00:33:09,959 --> 00:33:07,839
point he kicked it back saying the lack

724
00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:09,969
of proof were told according to repeal

725
00:33:17,539 --> 00:33:12,539
and then some men from emerging field

726
00:33:21,149 --> 00:33:17,549
went to the Pentagon and tried to argue

727
00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:21,159
Vandenberg into another wait what kind

728
00:33:27,950 --> 00:33:23,769
of things and they said again he said

729
00:33:29,849 --> 00:33:27,960
basically sorry wrong answer now we have

730
00:33:31,979 --> 00:33:29,859
traditionally thought of that as being

731
00:33:33,899 --> 00:33:31,989
well there was enough proof for that for

732
00:33:36,239 --> 00:33:33,909
general Vandenberg I think there's

733
00:33:39,299 --> 00:33:36,249
another reason I think Vandenberg

734
00:33:41,249 --> 00:33:39,309
realized he could not let interplanetary

735
00:33:43,229 --> 00:33:41,259
becoming an allowed explanation for any

736
00:33:46,469 --> 00:33:43,239
of the sightings because if he did that

737
00:33:48,239 --> 00:33:46,479
was a spring opening a Pandora's box

738
00:33:51,569 --> 00:33:48,249
which might reveal something like

739
00:33:53,639 --> 00:33:51,579
Roswell going on yeah I want to ask you

740
00:33:54,749 --> 00:33:53,649
more about Roswell in a moment only

741
00:33:57,119 --> 00:33:54,759
because

742
00:34:01,199 --> 00:33:57,129
we have that elephant in the room not

743
00:34:03,239 --> 00:34:01,209
being considered but let me just be a

744
00:34:05,310 --> 00:34:03,249
little bit more specific on this before

745
00:34:08,249 --> 00:34:05,320
the estimate of the situation was shot

746
00:34:12,809 --> 00:34:08,259
down there were a number of possible

747
00:34:15,089 --> 00:34:12,819
explanations for savings they said could

748
00:34:19,609 --> 00:34:15,099
this be a US craft could see top-secret

749
00:34:22,859 --> 00:34:19,619
US craft and so they searched all the

750
00:34:25,529 --> 00:34:22,869
agencies of the Air Force research

751
00:34:29,789 --> 00:34:25,539
agencies and so on and by the way they

752
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:29,799
told this to the FBI - there was no US

753
00:34:33,359 --> 00:34:31,210
project it could explain the flying

754
00:34:34,799 --> 00:34:33,369
saucer sighting then the next thing was

755
00:34:39,089 --> 00:34:34,809
well could it be from the USSR the

756
00:34:40,769 --> 00:34:39,099
Soviet Union and they didn't buy that

757
00:34:43,289 --> 00:34:40,779
they didn't think the Soviet Union had

758
00:34:44,730 --> 00:34:43,299
used you had advanced German war

759
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:44,740
research to the point where they could

760
00:34:49,649 --> 00:34:47,169
fly over the United States and further

761
00:34:51,359 --> 00:34:49,659
Mario they had developed top-secret

762
00:34:54,299 --> 00:34:51,369
craft they could fly over United States

763
00:34:56,970 --> 00:34:54,309
it wouldn't do it because I'm crash

764
00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:56,980
might get shot down I might crash and

765
00:35:01,200 --> 00:34:59,200
then they went their technology wouldn't

766
00:35:03,180 --> 00:35:01,210
be seeker anymore just like we wouldn't

767
00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:03,190
fly any top-secret craft over the Soviet

768
00:35:08,660 --> 00:35:05,049
Union until we absolutely were sure it

769
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:08,670
was operational and you from a disaster

770
00:35:14,609 --> 00:35:12,210
so that regular rule out US and USSR

771
00:35:18,749 --> 00:35:14,619
then there was a possibility of a

772
00:35:20,839 --> 00:35:18,759
misidentification natural phenomena or

773
00:35:23,819 --> 00:35:20,849
man-made phenomenon misidentifications

774
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:23,829
hoaxes of course and mental states to

775
00:35:31,789 --> 00:35:27,250
the witness's delusions and the last

776
00:35:35,279 --> 00:35:31,799
possibility was interplanetary so when

777
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:35,289
Vandenberg kicked back the wrestling

778
00:35:39,779 --> 00:35:37,690
situation he said of policy or were the

779
00:35:41,970 --> 00:35:39,789
policy being interplanetary is not an

780
00:35:44,839 --> 00:35:41,980
allowed explanation and from then on you

781
00:35:47,819 --> 00:35:44,849
see the people who are doing the Rivier

782
00:35:50,460 --> 00:35:47,829
analysis work what became their

783
00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:50,470
technical intelligence center project

784
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:52,390
sign project grudge and project Bluebook

785
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:55,599
all trying to explain cases without

786
00:36:00,329 --> 00:35:57,690
using extraterrestrial with one of the

787
00:36:02,940 --> 00:36:00,339
explanations and there's a lot of

788
00:36:05,849 --> 00:36:02,950
confusion setting in I asked myself why

789
00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:05,859
in the world was Annenberg reject this

790
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:07,859
evidence

791
00:36:13,859 --> 00:36:11,130
provided by his own experts he

792
00:36:16,019 --> 00:36:13,869
effectively employed these guys the

793
00:36:18,149 --> 00:36:16,029
right field to decide ultimately

794
00:36:21,149 --> 00:36:18,159
counselors of decisions relative to

795
00:36:22,679 --> 00:36:21,159
advanced aeronautical developments of

796
00:36:23,459 --> 00:36:22,689
the Soviet Union in the United States

797
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:23,469
and so on

798
00:36:28,019 --> 00:36:25,839
in other words they were the experts and

799
00:36:31,799 --> 00:36:28,029
he was telling you experts sorry wrong

800
00:36:34,529 --> 00:36:31,809
answer certainly is a typical politician

801
00:36:37,909 --> 00:36:34,539
or a military response we have dr. Bruce

802
00:36:41,249 --> 00:36:37,919
Maccabee we're talking about the FBI CIA

803
00:36:59,909 --> 00:36:41,259
UFO connection with Jean and Christian

804
00:37:01,859 --> 00:36:59,919
their attack of the rocket has been well

805
00:37:03,689 --> 00:37:01,869
received by critics and readers alike

806
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:03,699
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

807
00:37:08,579 --> 00:37:06,249
never forget a former US military

808
00:37:10,859 --> 00:37:08,589
intelligence officer is haunted by

809
00:37:13,469 --> 00:37:10,869
intense dreams about a beautiful woman

810
00:37:16,229 --> 00:37:13,479
pleading for his help after a terrible

811
00:37:17,189 --> 00:37:16,239
battle in outer space but the dreams

812
00:37:19,439 --> 00:37:17,199
turn out to be true

813
00:37:21,929 --> 00:37:19,449
and thrust him into a telepathic love

814
00:37:24,569 --> 00:37:21,939
affair with a woman whose faraway planet

815
00:37:27,569 --> 00:37:24,579
is intent on destroying the earth and

816
00:37:30,269 --> 00:37:27,579
now the gripping tale continues in but

817
00:37:32,999 --> 00:37:30,279
coming of the protectors it's the second

818
00:37:34,859 --> 00:37:33,009
book of the rockets trilogy a galaxy

819
00:37:37,620 --> 00:37:34,869
spanning adventure that pits our hapless

820
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858
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860
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861
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875
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881
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[Music]

912
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:08,490
in other books when you're listening to

913
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:10,410
the podcast

914
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:19,369
[Music]

915
00:41:24,349 --> 00:41:21,839
all right so we see this philosophy of

916
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:24,359
kicking down any possibility that UFOs

917
00:41:29,779 --> 00:41:26,640
are not conventional objects dr. Bruce

918
00:41:31,849 --> 00:41:29,789
Maccabee and we have a lot to cover here

919
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:31,859
and not always as much time as we'd like

920
00:41:36,620 --> 00:41:34,170
what about the Robertson panel explain

921
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:36,630
that to our listeners well the CIA as I

922
00:41:41,450 --> 00:41:38,910
said got interested in 1952 at the time

923
00:41:43,999 --> 00:41:41,460
of this big slap they went to interview

924
00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:44,009
the Air Force and were told that there

925
00:41:49,130 --> 00:41:46,380
was misidentification the hoaxes and

926
00:41:51,319 --> 00:41:49,140
delusions primarily the way the CIA

927
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:51,329
document presents what they were told by

928
00:41:53,839 --> 00:41:52,079
the Air Force

929
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:53,849
there was zero possibility that

930
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:56,130
interplanetary craft was involved which

931
00:41:59,900 --> 00:41:57,599
as I said was essentially alive of the

932
00:42:02,059 --> 00:41:59,910
CIA because at the same time they were

933
00:42:03,410 --> 00:42:02,069
telling the FBI several percent of the

934
00:42:04,910 --> 00:42:03,420
sightings couldn't be explained and into

935
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:04,920
flattened it was one of the kind of

936
00:42:11,059 --> 00:42:06,660
things that top generals were thinking

937
00:42:13,069 --> 00:42:11,069
about anyway the CIA subsequently did

938
00:42:15,859 --> 00:42:13,079
some of its own data collection and had

939
00:42:18,589 --> 00:42:15,869
collected data and somewhat from around

940
00:42:22,089 --> 00:42:18,599
the world anyway and the marshal

941
00:42:25,969 --> 00:42:22,099
Chadwell top sciences CIA decided that

942
00:42:29,959 --> 00:42:25,979
it was time to do something on the front

943
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:29,969
cover of the book I got a few words from

944
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:31,920
this one of the CIA documents saying is

945
00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:33,450
something's going on which demands

946
00:42:38,329 --> 00:42:34,950
immediate immediate attention

947
00:42:41,539 --> 00:42:38,339
this is around the end of the year in

948
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:41,549
1952 he decided it was proposed to a

949
00:42:47,539 --> 00:42:43,410
government agency and intelligence that

950
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:47,549
the CIA on hold a meeting a panel to

951
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:48,960
decide whether Nara is going to be worth

952
00:42:52,279 --> 00:42:49,890
investigating

953
00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:52,289
flying saucer sighting and it's a pair

954
00:42:56,029 --> 00:42:53,910
from the way he wrote that he assumed

955
00:42:57,709 --> 00:42:56,039
they would find out that they were they

956
00:43:00,469 --> 00:42:57,719
would conclude that yes there was

957
00:43:03,529 --> 00:43:00,479
something strange going on involved

958
00:43:08,359 --> 00:43:03,539
required research work well this panel

959
00:43:11,059 --> 00:43:08,369
was put together by NHP Robertson and it

960
00:43:13,549 --> 00:43:11,069
was carry out a lot of part of January I

961
00:43:18,099 --> 00:43:13,559
believe it is of 1953

962
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:18,109
over a period of four days and involved

963
00:43:24,559 --> 00:43:21,410
parts of Bluebook people making

964
00:43:25,970 --> 00:43:24,569
presentations as to supposedly their

965
00:43:28,730 --> 00:43:25,980
best data and

966
00:43:31,450 --> 00:43:28,740
including some films and so on now these

967
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:31,460
gentlemen who are the scientists for

968
00:43:38,060 --> 00:43:34,650
evaluating the data apparently had

969
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:38,070
little background in the subject the big

970
00:43:42,830 --> 00:43:40,290
the main thing though is they decided

971
00:43:44,450 --> 00:43:42,840
that they could explain our cases one of

972
00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:44,460
the most egregious excellent quote

973
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:47,880
explanations unquote had to do with film

974
00:43:57,140 --> 00:43:52,050
by a Navy photographer as he was driving

975
00:43:59,300 --> 00:43:57,150
across Utah in 1952 he and his wife saw

976
00:44:02,570 --> 00:43:59,310
these discs like things with domes on

977
00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:02,580
the top flying around he had to get out

978
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:05,160
of his car open up the trunk plot is a

979
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,070
16 millimeter professional movie camera

980
00:44:12,830 --> 00:44:10,400
and get it going and before he could

981
00:44:14,900 --> 00:44:12,840
take any film by the time he got his

982
00:44:16,460 --> 00:44:14,910
camera ready the objects were off in the

983
00:44:18,530 --> 00:44:16,470
distance and they just show up as points

984
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:18,540
of light I have one of the frames of the

985
00:44:24,260 --> 00:44:22,050
film in the book anyway if this was

986
00:44:27,260 --> 00:44:24,270
discussed at the Robertson panel and all

987
00:44:29,180 --> 00:44:27,270
I did was talk about the film itself and

988
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:29,190
they decided this film could be seagulls

989
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:31,650
off in the distance they didn't even

990
00:44:38,210 --> 00:44:35,850
consider the verbal testimony of Dilbert

991
00:44:40,460 --> 00:44:38,220
Newhouse and his wife who saw these

992
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:40,470
things when they're a lot closer and as

993
00:44:44,359 --> 00:44:42,180
I said we're circular with a dome on the

994
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:44,369
top but they didn't even consider the

995
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:47,730
testimony so it's things like that or

996
00:44:53,150 --> 00:44:49,410
information sort of falls through the

997
00:44:54,650 --> 00:44:53,160
cracks or gets modified it or allows

998
00:44:56,810 --> 00:44:54,660
them to say well we can explain

999
00:44:59,090 --> 00:44:56,820
everything and when they clearly could

1000
00:45:02,480 --> 00:44:59,100
explain everything all the interest in

1001
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:02,490
the subject and dr. Maccabee the

1002
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:04,650
question I have here is then and by

1003
00:45:07,550 --> 00:45:06,090
weight please if possible keep the

1004
00:45:10,099 --> 00:45:07,560
answer is a bit shorter so we can get to

1005
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:10,109
more ground let me continue okay so

1006
00:45:16,030 --> 00:45:12,770
question I have here is we follow this

1007
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:16,040
pattern of shall we call it

1008
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:19,530
institutionalized debunking of UFOs this

1009
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:22,050
is the surface impression we see that

1010
00:45:26,990 --> 00:45:23,760
everything can be explained

1011
00:45:28,609 --> 00:45:27,000
conventionally behind the scenes where

1012
00:45:31,460 --> 00:45:28,619
they're actually looking over this stuff

1013
00:45:32,750 --> 00:45:31,470
is that what they wanted to believe is

1014
00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:32,760
that what they were forced to believe

1015
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:35,310
what they pretended to believe did they

1016
00:45:39,830 --> 00:45:37,650
have another opinion another point of

1017
00:45:44,540 --> 00:45:39,840
view where they did have to

1018
00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:44,550
take it seriously that you're talking

1019
00:45:48,830 --> 00:45:45,150
about

1020
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:48,840
that we've dealt with so far in the Air

1021
00:45:54,530 --> 00:45:52,650
Force the CIA possibly the FBI were they

1022
00:45:56,660 --> 00:45:54,540
all taking it really seriously we can't

1023
00:46:00,380 --> 00:45:56,670
figure this out behind the scenes were

1024
00:46:02,330 --> 00:46:00,390
they so involved in convincing the

1025
00:46:04,310 --> 00:46:02,340
public they were conventional that they

1026
00:46:07,490 --> 00:46:04,320
also may be convinced themselves of the

1027
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:07,500
same thing yes I have considered the

1028
00:46:14,030 --> 00:46:11,040
possibility or appeared to be the people

1029
00:46:16,340 --> 00:46:14,040
doing a worker project were so

1030
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,350
brainwashed themselves into believing

1031
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:18,960
that there was nothing to it and any

1032
00:46:26,540 --> 00:46:21,530
explanation in a any explanation a storm

1033
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,550
project grudge was a project from

1034
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:28,800
between some project sign project budget

1035
00:46:35,980 --> 00:46:31,290
and project Bluebook and at the grudge

1036
00:46:38,990 --> 00:46:35,990
report was publicized and December of

1037
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:39,000
1950 the garage report was called by

1038
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:41,370
General Kebbell who was at the time the

1039
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:44,330
directors yeah of effort intelligence a

1040
00:46:49,010 --> 00:46:46,890
worthless tripe and in project grudge

1041
00:46:51,260 --> 00:46:49,020
they prided themselves on explaining

1042
00:46:54,980 --> 00:46:51,270
every one of about 300 cases they had

1043
00:46:57,650 --> 00:46:54,990
looked at and apparently some 50 of

1044
00:46:58,910 --> 00:46:57,660
those cases were quote explained unquote

1045
00:47:01,220 --> 00:46:58,920
with the explanations being so long-term

1046
00:47:02,450 --> 00:47:01,230
missing that even newsmen could see that

1047
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:02,460
there was something going on it was

1048
00:47:10,220 --> 00:47:07,440
strange as time went on this just sort

1049
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:10,230
of solidified into UFOs can be anything

1050
00:47:14,750 --> 00:47:13,050
but extraterrestrial and so when you get

1051
00:47:18,410 --> 00:47:14,760
at the end of Project Blue Book when it

1052
00:47:21,380 --> 00:47:18,420
closed in 1969 13,000 cases 700 and one

1053
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,390
of them left is unexplained and as far

1054
00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:23,280
as the Air Force official policy was

1055
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:25,920
concerned of the sooner one all of them

1056
00:47:29,150 --> 00:47:27,210
could be explained if they had more

1057
00:47:31,550 --> 00:47:29,160
information about the sightings there

1058
00:47:35,090 --> 00:47:31,560
were so-called insufficient information

1059
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:35,100
type of sayings but if you're going to

1060
00:47:37,580 --> 00:47:36,450
look at the actual sightings in cells

1061
00:47:39,590 --> 00:47:37,590
you find there's plenty of information

1062
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:39,600
available to conclude something was

1063
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:40,610
going on

1064
00:47:46,610 --> 00:47:44,090
therefore even decide as I did that

1065
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:46,620
there essentially was a policy under

1066
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:50,130
guard and it was being driven by the Air

1067
00:47:53,090 --> 00:47:50,730
Force

1068
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:53,100
it wasn't driven by the FBI yeah yeah I

1069
00:47:55,490 --> 00:47:53,730
was

1070
00:47:57,710 --> 00:47:55,500
totally confused I would think by what

1071
00:48:00,440 --> 00:47:57,720
they were told on the one hand there was

1072
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:00,450
the US and Soviet weaponry in another

1073
00:48:07,460 --> 00:48:02,880
hand it was explainable as natural

1074
00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:07,470
phenomena and the Air Force kept saying

1075
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:10,200
publicly how uninterested it was in

1076
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:14,730
flight officer reports yeah

1077
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:17,970
general Vandenberg's dismissal of the

1078
00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:21,119
situation back in 1948 it had a snowball

1079
00:48:25,250 --> 00:48:23,609
effect when he dismissed the estimate of

1080
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:25,260
the situation document which is fairly

1081
00:48:34,430 --> 00:48:28,530
famous now that's where we really see

1082
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:34,440
the first indication of a of a policy of

1083
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:38,400
denial and that I love that term Jain

1084
00:48:44,270 --> 00:48:41,210
institutionalized debunking and ridicule

1085
00:48:46,550 --> 00:48:44,280
it goes all the way back till to 1948

1086
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:46,560
with what general Vandenberg I would

1087
00:48:50,780 --> 00:48:48,690
think that it it kind of appears that

1088
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:50,790
way reading through this actually didn't

1089
00:48:58,970 --> 00:48:55,050
your book on that right that's my my

1090
00:49:01,730 --> 00:48:58,980
input I guess on this whole problem the

1091
00:49:04,609 --> 00:49:01,740
ring re-evaluation or reinterpretation

1092
00:49:06,890 --> 00:49:04,619
of Vandenberg kicking back the estimate

1093
00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:06,900
situation so interesting essentially

1094
00:49:10,250 --> 00:49:08,609
telling his experts they're wrong

1095
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:10,260
my guess is he didn't tell them they

1096
00:49:14,540 --> 00:49:12,570
were wrong just he said you can't you

1097
00:49:17,420 --> 00:49:14,550
can't go public because if he had

1098
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:17,430
allowed interplanetary as an explanation

1099
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:20,850
that woulda leaked out oh yeah and the

1100
00:49:25,070 --> 00:49:22,290
air force considering interplanetary

1101
00:49:28,849 --> 00:49:25,080
saucers there's some of the things that

1102
00:49:30,770 --> 00:49:28,859
are flying around and the air force

1103
00:49:34,130 --> 00:49:30,780
apparently didn't want that to happen so

1104
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,140
he stomped on the problem right after

1105
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:37,200
the outset as it were by saying you guys

1106
00:49:43,310 --> 00:49:40,410
can't use I'm speculating he said you

1107
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:43,320
guys can't use extraterrestrial isn't a

1108
00:49:49,570 --> 00:49:47,630
lot of explanation all has to be US USSR

1109
00:49:51,470 --> 00:49:49,580
hopes his delusions are met or

1110
00:49:53,530 --> 00:49:51,480
misidentifications of natural and

1111
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:53,540
man-made phenomena

1112
00:49:57,950 --> 00:49:55,920
all right setting that by studying that

1113
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:57,960
policy he caused a lot of confusion in

1114
00:50:03,140 --> 00:50:00,720
the following years well it's a matter

1115
00:50:05,390 --> 00:50:03,150
of being politically correct it sounds

1116
00:50:06,690 --> 00:50:05,400
like to me but get back to the other

1117
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:06,700
elephant in the room

1118
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:10,210
Roswell connection so if Roswell is as

1119
00:50:17,819 --> 00:50:13,450
has been interpreted later an actual

1120
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:17,829
crash of an alien spacecraft this had to

1121
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:22,240
be somewhere very important to the

1122
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:24,880
authorities a huge undercurrent no

1123
00:50:29,550 --> 00:50:27,130
matter what they say publicly they know

1124
00:50:31,140 --> 00:50:29,560
this and isn't that something that would

1125
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:31,150
have had to have gotten a lot of play

1126
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:33,010
and at least intelligence and military

1127
00:50:40,890 --> 00:50:38,770
circles well having read the book you

1128
00:50:43,859 --> 00:50:40,900
know that I do say I do talk about

1129
00:50:44,339 --> 00:50:43,869
Roswell but my argument is not based on

1130
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:44,349
that

1131
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:47,290
however the Roswell were real and they

1132
00:50:50,970 --> 00:50:49,210
wanted to cover it up I would even be

1133
00:50:54,140 --> 00:50:50,980
more reason for general Vandenberg to

1134
00:50:56,900 --> 00:50:54,150
shoot down the excavation if they if

1135
00:50:58,859 --> 00:50:56,910
suppose the right field came up field

1136
00:51:02,990 --> 00:50:58,869
analysts came up with a correct

1137
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:05,069
Vandenberg knows about the Roswell crash

1138
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:07,119
and you know that's being suppressed to

1139
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:09,280
be covered up essentially as much as

1140
00:51:14,010 --> 00:51:11,970
possible it wouldn't dare that

1141
00:51:16,589 --> 00:51:14,020
interplanetary be part of the allowed

1142
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:16,599
explanations okay so that therefore

1143
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:19,359
becomes a subtext and all this let's do

1144
00:51:24,210 --> 00:51:21,609
our break and get into more of this dr.

1145
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:24,220
Bruce Maccabee is here we've got a lot

1146
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:29,440
more to talk about the FBI CIA UFO

1147
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:30,130
connection

1148
00:51:36,530 --> 00:51:31,599
you're on with gene and Chris you're in

1149
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:38,050
[Music]

1150
00:51:43,130 --> 00:51:40,290
independently leading the way for the

1151
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:43,140
nation compelling talk for every

1152
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:47,450
political persuasion we are see and

1153
00:51:52,820 --> 00:51:50,640
Genesis is defined as an origin creation

1154
00:51:54,590 --> 00:51:52,830
for the beginning Genesis communications

1155
00:51:56,330 --> 00:51:54,600
network began with the mission of

1156
00:51:58,370 --> 00:51:56,340
providing you with a kind of compelling

1157
00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:58,380
content you're listening to now and it G

1158
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:00,240
C and live.com you'll find a free

1159
00:52:05,690 --> 00:52:02,640
archive of our nation's history narrated

1160
00:52:08,510 --> 00:52:05,700
by G C and hosts explore cheer and pass

1161
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:08,520
down to future generations GCN is the

1162
00:52:11,540 --> 00:52:09,870
future of talk radio

1163
00:52:14,930 --> 00:52:11,550
we should always strive to learn from

1164
00:52:18,890 --> 00:52:14,940
our past together we are G C in live.com

1165
00:52:20,900 --> 00:52:18,900
G C n we the people grow cotton wheat

1166
00:52:22,550 --> 00:52:20,910
fabric engraving can bed strips and

1167
00:52:24,350 --> 00:52:22,560
fibers to protect from counterfeit than

1168
00:52:25,310 --> 00:52:24,360
carding to a private bank having it led

1169
00:52:27,050 --> 00:52:25,320
back at interest

1170
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:27,060
forcing taxes to service debt this

1171
00:52:30,350 --> 00:52:28,890
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

1172
00:52:31,970 --> 00:52:30,360
stating a central bank issuing the

1173
00:52:33,110 --> 00:52:31,980
public currency is a greater menace to

1174
00:52:34,850 --> 00:52:33,120
the liberties of the people than a

1175
00:52:36,260 --> 00:52:34,860
standing army hi Ted I understand I'm

1176
00:52:38,090 --> 00:52:36,270
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1177
00:52:41,630 --> 00:52:38,100
that explains our monetary system call

1178
00:52:44,810 --> 00:52:41,640
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1179
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:44,820
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1180
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:50,400
that's 800 686 to 237 what good is a big

1181
00:52:55,100 --> 00:52:53,010
berkey water filter we get that question

1182
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:55,110
a lot here at big berkey water filters

1183
00:52:59,210 --> 00:52:57,090
calm and in a word the answer is

1184
00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:59,220
protection protection from water main

1185
00:53:03,710 --> 00:53:01,920
breaks ecoli contamination environmental

1186
00:53:06,380 --> 00:53:03,720
chemical spills pesticide runoff

1187
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:06,390
chlorine taste and smell and all forms

1188
00:53:10,190 --> 00:53:08,370
of fluoride plus big berkey water

1189
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:10,200
filters are the original gravity water

1190
00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:12,090
filter system and most trusted on the

1191
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:14,460
market for a reason tested by multiple

1192
00:53:18,590 --> 00:53:17,310
independent NSF EPA certified labs they

1193
00:53:20,780 --> 00:53:18,600
are the gold standard in water

1194
00:53:22,580 --> 00:53:20,790
purification and only one point seven

1195
00:53:24,380 --> 00:53:22,590
cents a gallon a single set of filters

1196
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:24,390
can last for five to ten years

1197
00:53:29,210 --> 00:53:27,330
that means big savings big berkey the

1198
00:53:31,460 --> 00:53:29,220
one that's powerful enough to purify

1199
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:31,470
stagnant pond water get a big berkey

1200
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:33,690
today at big berkey water filters calm

1201
00:53:38,180 --> 00:53:35,970
GCN listeners receive five percent off

1202
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:38,190
all ceramic filter systems visit our

1203
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:40,170
website or call one eight seven seven

1204
00:53:45,860 --> 00:53:42,690
ninety nine Berkey that's 877 ninety

1205
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:45,870
nine ber ke y big berkey water filters

1206
00:53:55,250 --> 00:53:46,640
for the

1207
00:54:02,849 --> 00:53:58,680
welcome back to to the para cast the

1208
00:54:11,370 --> 00:54:02,859
gold standard of paranormal radio and

1209
00:54:12,930 --> 00:54:11,380
now here's Jane Steinberg with Gina and

1210
00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:12,940
christen the para cast dr. Bruce

1211
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:14,950
Maccabee joins us a reminder again we've

1212
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:17,530
got that new service called para cast

1213
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:22,089
plus you get the ad free version of the

1214
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:25,119
power cast higher resolution copy better

1215
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:27,730
sounding and everything way to go does

1216
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:30,490
this go to plus dot the para cast comm

1217
00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:34,450
PL us dot the para cast comm we tell you

1218
00:54:39,420 --> 00:54:37,510
how you sign up for our power cast +

1219
00:54:42,089 --> 00:54:39,430
premium service that's almost a tongue

1220
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twister five bucks a month fifty bucks a

1221
00:54:46,290 --> 00:54:44,410
year and we'll have more stuff going on

1222
00:54:48,690 --> 00:54:46,300
we're already breaking in a fledgling

1223
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:48,700
chatroom will have other audio

1224
00:54:53,099 --> 00:54:51,040
presentations videos lots more to come

1225
00:54:56,849 --> 00:54:53,109
beginning this weekend we'll even be

1226
00:54:59,730 --> 00:54:56,859
adding the special exclusive after the

1227
00:55:03,299 --> 00:54:59,740
para cast podcast with colour commentary

1228
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:03,309
and more para cast + + dr. Peric ask.com

1229
00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:06,400
Chris Bruce a couple of years ago I

1230
00:55:10,620 --> 00:55:08,440
actually has been a little longer the

1231
00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:10,630
latest in what have you know turned out

1232
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:13,599
to be a long line of whistleblowers has

1233
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:16,930
come out and he is the ex CIA guy chase

1234
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:19,930
Brandon what discuss his his claims

1235
00:55:24,630 --> 00:55:22,690
about Roswell and and whether you think

1236
00:55:26,819 --> 00:55:24,640
that he was tasked to come out with that

1237
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:26,829
revelation about a box full of documents

1238
00:55:33,839 --> 00:55:29,200
or or do you think that he who truly was

1239
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:33,849
a whistleblower he might have been

1240
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:37,210
playing up stuff sells book but I don't

1241
00:55:42,539 --> 00:55:39,490
know anything anymore about it than has

1242
00:55:44,849 --> 00:55:42,549
been published already I never talked to

1243
00:55:47,220 --> 00:55:44,859
the person his story of aya as I

1244
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:47,230
understand it is he was in a in a safe

1245
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:50,650
that is a big room as a you can only get

1246
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:53,250
into it a circuit secret code method

1247
00:55:58,859 --> 00:55:55,690
where they stored historical documents

1248
00:56:01,680 --> 00:55:58,869
of the CIA son found some box the word

1249
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:01,690
Roswell on it pulled it out look at it

1250
00:56:06,690 --> 00:56:03,970
look at the stuff on the inside uh-huh

1251
00:56:07,980 --> 00:56:06,700
this confirms my feeling that Roswell is

1252
00:56:10,500 --> 00:56:07,990
real start the ball

1253
00:56:14,310 --> 00:56:10,510
back in so far as I know he didn't say

1254
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:14,320
when that happened but subsequently he

1255
00:56:20,370 --> 00:56:18,610
went public in 2010 or the 12 2012 I

1256
00:56:24,990 --> 00:56:20,380
think some about three years ago a

1257
00:56:28,170 --> 00:56:25,000
little over three years ago he said he

1258
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:28,180
hadn't been in that safe for a long time

1259
00:56:34,410 --> 00:56:31,170
didn't say when it occurred obviously

1260
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:34,420
our CIA historian suppose it was

1261
00:56:41,010 --> 00:56:36,640
reported as saying he searched through

1262
00:56:43,170 --> 00:56:41,020
this safe and didn't find anything of

1263
00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:43,180
course the Roswell box could have been

1264
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:46,630
removed years ago or the day after chase

1265
00:56:53,250 --> 00:56:48,400
Brandon went public we wouldn't know

1266
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:53,260
though this is a typical story that sort

1267
00:56:59,850 --> 00:56:56,050
of hanging by a thread out there relying

1268
00:57:01,290 --> 00:56:59,860
on the veracity of mr. Brannon do you

1269
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:01,300
have a lot of friends in the agency I

1270
00:57:06,150 --> 00:57:03,730
mean you've Quentin your book you've

1271
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:06,160
you've given presentations on any number

1272
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:08,110
of occasions you've checked in with

1273
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:10,480
friends of yours within the agency

1274
00:57:16,770 --> 00:57:12,880
have you asked Ron Pandolfi have you

1275
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:16,780
asked others who have been close to you

1276
00:57:22,980 --> 00:57:18,720
over the years about this particular

1277
00:57:27,470 --> 00:57:22,990
claim and what was the response that

1278
00:57:31,950 --> 00:57:27,480
plane came along after I was at the

1279
00:57:34,380 --> 00:57:31,960
agency that claim was in 2011 it's lower

1280
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:34,390
which every year was right

1281
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:37,210
I never heard of him before you can

1282
00:57:42,450 --> 00:57:39,359
having read the book you know that I was

1283
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:42,460
trying to investigate the CIA at the

1284
00:57:46,260 --> 00:57:43,810
same time they were probably trying to

1285
00:57:49,020 --> 00:57:46,270
investigate me that sounds like a lot of

1286
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:49,030
fun I wouldn't want to get into a

1287
00:57:55,550 --> 00:57:50,170
betting match who's going to get a

1288
00:58:00,090 --> 00:57:59,220
published in there was in the seventies

1289
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:00,100
eighties and nineties

1290
00:58:05,810 --> 00:58:03,010
except for a few comments by kid Greene

1291
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:05,820
and so on and 2008 was not unaware of

1292
00:58:10,650 --> 00:58:09,280
chase Brandon the troll I heard about it

1293
00:58:13,859 --> 00:58:10,660
through the grapevine and he had been

1294
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:13,869
talking there was an earlier guy Harry

1295
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:17,170
roses ski wayne who supposedly was the

1296
00:58:21,839 --> 00:58:20,410
Falken Falken in slavery I wanted to ask

1297
00:58:24,959 --> 00:58:21,849
about the aviary

1298
00:58:28,979 --> 00:58:24,969
and I've asked a lot of people at the

1299
00:58:31,079 --> 00:58:28,989
CIA about this and they all know they

1300
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:31,089
never heard of never heard of Rose this

1301
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:34,690
key it has to be in the same section of

1302
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:36,690
the CIA I supposed to get any

1303
00:58:40,319 --> 00:58:38,130
cross-fertilization

1304
00:58:41,849 --> 00:58:40,329
right so if you're in the CIA and you

1305
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:41,859
want to find out about somebody else in

1306
00:58:46,319 --> 00:58:44,890
the CIA it's a difficult process is that

1307
00:58:50,370 --> 00:58:46,329
what you're saying if they're not in

1308
00:58:51,839 --> 00:58:50,380
your in your particular you have to know

1309
00:58:53,279 --> 00:58:51,849
something about the person first in

1310
00:58:54,479 --> 00:58:53,289
order to identify them as a piercing

1311
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:54,489
person you want to talk to her you don't

1312
00:58:58,709 --> 00:58:56,170
just go on and around asking people oh

1313
00:59:01,589 --> 00:58:58,719
by the way have you been down in here in

1314
00:59:06,589 --> 00:59:01,599
the history face and have you seen the

1315
00:59:09,749 --> 00:59:06,599
roswell box racially people have kind of

1316
00:59:13,410 --> 00:59:09,759
whispered around is you know wondering

1317
00:59:15,870 --> 00:59:13,420
about your relationship with the CIA you

1318
00:59:17,789 --> 00:59:15,880
are very close with over the years you

1319
00:59:20,969 --> 00:59:17,799
were very close with with people who

1320
00:59:23,130 --> 00:59:20,979
were known to to work for the agency

1321
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:23,140
Ron Pandolfi of course was the head of

1322
00:59:27,539 --> 00:59:24,729
the Science and Technology desk for many

1323
00:59:29,749 --> 00:59:27,549
years I he still may may be I'm not even

1324
00:59:32,759 --> 00:59:29,759
sure why don't you give us a quick

1325
00:59:36,059 --> 00:59:32,769
thumbnail sketch of how you were first

1326
00:59:38,219 --> 00:59:36,069
brought in to brief the CIA and kind of

1327
00:59:39,839 --> 00:59:38,229
take us through the process of

1328
00:59:43,410 --> 00:59:39,849
establishing your relationship within

1329
00:59:44,969 --> 00:59:43,420
the agency as I point out in the book by

1330
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:44,979
the beginning of my involvement with the

1331
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:48,130
CIA had to do is photographic analysis

1332
00:59:52,939 --> 00:59:50,650
earnest Gatorade radar in office in the

1333
00:59:56,039 --> 00:59:52,949
same sense that it was all over the FBI

1334
00:59:59,579 --> 00:59:56,049
began as a result of photo analysis but

1335
01:00:01,859 --> 00:59:59,589
the December 1978 and those zealand

1336
01:00:06,420 --> 01:00:01,869
sightings i know were publicized

1337
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:06,430
worldwide right the balancing de balón

1338
01:00:11,729 --> 01:00:07,089
take place

1339
01:00:15,529 --> 01:00:11,739
no that was October of 78 and then in

1340
01:00:17,699 --> 01:00:15,539
December 1978 was in a movie film

1341
01:00:21,829 --> 01:00:17,709
multiple witness people on board an

1342
01:00:25,319 --> 01:00:21,839
aircraft in the middle of the night

1343
01:00:28,170 --> 01:00:25,329
seeing lights and getting film having

1344
01:00:30,539 --> 01:00:28,180
verbal testimony and objects picked up

1345
01:00:32,189 --> 01:00:30,549
by the ground radar as well as the

1346
01:00:34,439 --> 01:00:32,199
airplane radar a very complicated case

1347
01:00:35,089 --> 01:00:34,449
the only one that I'm aware of that is a

1348
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:35,099
head

1349
01:00:39,709 --> 01:00:37,440
any portion of the citing argued out in

1350
01:00:42,199 --> 01:00:39,719
the open literature you can see I have

1351
01:00:48,859 --> 01:00:42,209
stuff on my website which by the way is

1352
01:00:50,809 --> 01:00:48,869
triple w dot dr UMUC taught 8k calm

1353
01:00:56,719 --> 01:00:50,819
that's the number eight letter K

1354
01:00:58,939 --> 01:00:56,729
rheumatic k calm anyway I wanted some

1355
01:01:01,609 --> 01:00:58,949
consultation on my analysis of the radar

1356
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:01,619
sightings and I first talked to a guy at

1357
01:01:06,699 --> 01:01:04,559
mitre corporation Gordon McDonald and he

1358
01:01:09,589 --> 01:01:06,709
suggested I talk to an expert at CIA

1359
01:01:11,959 --> 01:01:09,599
which floored me I never thought kataka

1360
01:01:15,019 --> 01:01:11,969
the CIA after all they were considered

1361
01:01:17,359 --> 01:01:15,029
to be boys of ufology running the whole

1362
01:01:20,479 --> 01:01:17,369
cover-up or something and well that was

1363
01:01:22,939 --> 01:01:20,489
in December of 78 in that same month the

1364
01:01:25,309 --> 01:01:22,949
FBI here the CIA had coughed up about

1365
01:01:27,859 --> 01:01:25,319
900 pages of documents after saying all

1366
01:01:30,140 --> 01:01:27,869
they had a couple of dozen pages related

1367
01:01:33,709 --> 01:01:30,150
to the Robertson panel in fact they had

1368
01:01:36,380 --> 01:01:33,719
hundreds of pages so but nevertheless I

1369
01:01:39,319 --> 01:01:36,390
decided well okay oh maybe I'll do it

1370
01:01:40,910 --> 01:01:39,329
just to see what the CIA is like not at

1371
01:01:45,410 --> 01:01:40,920
that point I was still working for the

1372
01:01:47,170 --> 01:01:45,420
Navy and so I have security clearance

1373
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:47,180
you have any trouble

1374
01:01:54,890 --> 01:01:51,930
hanging in to the CIA to talk about this

1375
01:01:56,989 --> 01:01:54,900
sighting and I went there and talked

1376
01:02:00,469 --> 01:01:56,999
about southerners I think was like seven

1377
01:02:02,930 --> 01:02:00,479
seven guys represent different parts of

1378
01:02:09,949 --> 01:02:02,940
the CIA I suppose who weren't arrested

1379
01:02:13,189 --> 01:02:09,959
in the sighting and after that I did get

1380
01:02:17,509 --> 01:02:13,199
to talk to a radar expert and I think I

1381
01:02:21,289 --> 01:02:17,519
was at the agency three times in 1979 in

1382
01:02:26,269 --> 01:02:21,299
the spring of 79 then I didn't get much

1383
01:02:28,939 --> 01:02:26,279
help I didn't go back again and had

1384
01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:28,949
never had not planned to return to the

1385
01:02:35,719 --> 01:02:32,910
CIA ever five years later I get a phone

1386
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:35,729
call from a guy on Pandolfi I got a

1387
01:02:41,959 --> 01:02:40,170
phone call uh he was interested in the

1388
01:02:45,170 --> 01:02:41,969
work that I was doing in later generated

1389
01:02:48,049 --> 01:02:45,180
underwater sound I call LGUs to the Navy

1390
01:02:49,030 --> 01:02:48,059
work related to a SW anti-submarine

1391
01:02:53,380 --> 01:02:49,040
warfare

1392
01:02:55,450 --> 01:02:53,390
and he noticed that this phenomenon we

1393
01:02:57,910 --> 01:02:55,460
were using the generation of underwater

1394
01:03:00,750 --> 01:02:57,920
sound using a laser you fly in an

1395
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:00,760
airplane for the powerful pulsed laser

1396
01:03:06,490 --> 01:03:03,970
zap the water surface with a laser and

1397
01:03:08,770 --> 01:03:06,500
generates underwater sound that goes out

1398
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:08,780
from this that point then you can use

1399
01:03:12,790 --> 01:03:10,160
that to communicate one way with

1400
01:03:14,650 --> 01:03:12,800
submarines in a covert manner or you can

1401
01:03:17,620 --> 01:03:14,660
use it to detect echoes underneath this

1402
01:03:20,290 --> 01:03:17,630
could be used detecting underwater

1403
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:20,300
submarine anyway he had noticed that

1404
01:03:25,180 --> 01:03:21,890
there were a lot of papers in the Soviet

1405
01:03:27,340 --> 01:03:25,190
Union on that subject let's go into more

1406
01:03:30,550 --> 01:03:27,350
of the framing of that in a moment with

1407
01:03:34,450 --> 01:03:30,560
dr. Bruce Maccabee the book is about the

1408
01:03:36,250 --> 01:03:34,460
FBI CIA UFO connection that's almost a

1409
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:36,260
tongue twister with Gene and Christian

1410
01:03:42,290 --> 01:03:46,160
[Music]

1411
01:03:50,060 --> 01:03:48,530
first game attack of the rock codes and

1412
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:50,070
it was a critically acclaimed success

1413
01:03:53,690 --> 01:03:51,930
and now there's the coming of the

1414
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:53,700
protectors a former military

1415
01:03:58,220 --> 01:03:56,010
intelligence man is contacted by a space

1416
01:03:59,420 --> 01:03:58,230
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

1417
01:04:01,370 --> 01:03:59,430
to be a nightmare

1418
01:04:03,110 --> 01:04:01,380
because evil forces on our distant

1419
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,120
planet are planning to conquer the earth

1420
01:04:08,210 --> 01:04:05,760
this is gripping science fiction of the

1421
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:08,220
classic kind attack of the rock codes

1422
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and the coming of the protectors find

1423
01:04:17,330 --> 01:04:12,870
out more at Rocko its calm that's rock

1424
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oh it's our Ock oids calm do you need a

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1436
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ever felt like the United States

1437
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:49,350
government knows way too much about your

1438
01:04:53,540 --> 01:04:51,330
financial affairs I continue to hear

1439
01:04:55,610 --> 01:04:53,550
stories about property seizures frozen

1440
01:04:57,530 --> 01:04:55,620
bank accounts confiscation of stocks and

1441
01:04:59,270 --> 01:04:57,540
bonds it makes me wonder if the US

1442
01:05:01,130 --> 01:04:59,280
citizen will ever again have the right

1443
01:05:03,590 --> 01:05:01,140
to life liberty and the pursuit of

1444
01:05:05,630 --> 01:05:03,600
happiness unfortunately with the drug

1445
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:05,640
and money laundering Act the IRS Revenue

1446
01:05:09,830 --> 01:05:08,490
Ruling 60-45 of 1984 and the trading

1447
01:05:12,770 --> 01:05:09,840
with the enemy Act in Franklin D

1448
01:05:14,660 --> 01:05:12,780
Roosevelt executive order of 1933 some

1449
01:05:16,700 --> 01:05:14,670
precious metal holdings are subject to

1450
01:05:18,410 --> 01:05:16,710
government intervention for this reason

1451
01:05:20,150 --> 01:05:18,420
Midas Resources has prepared a report

1452
01:05:22,070 --> 01:05:20,160
explaining the boundaries of trading

1453
01:05:23,930 --> 01:05:22,080
precious metals privately whether if you

1454
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:23,940
have any intention of trading with Midas

1455
01:05:27,230 --> 01:05:25,650
resources or not I've instructed my

1456
01:05:31,490 --> 01:05:27,240
representatives to give this report out

1457
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:31,500
free call for your free copy at 1-866-37

1458
01:05:35,910 --> 01:05:34,410
1 investing always proceed with caution

1459
01:05:47,650 --> 01:05:35,920
again call

1460
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:47,660
[Music]

1461
01:05:52,550 --> 01:05:50,490
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1462
01:05:55,220 --> 01:05:52,560
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1464
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thousands of people who are just as

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passionate about radio as you are but

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1487
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1488
01:06:53,930 --> 01:06:51,869
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1489
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:53,940
needed resources are often drained by

1490
01:06:58,220 --> 01:06:56,010
people capable of caring for themselves

1491
01:07:00,170 --> 01:06:58,230
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1492
01:07:02,060 --> 01:07:00,180
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1496
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1499
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:33,510
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1500
01:07:39,170 --> 01:07:36,480
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1501
01:07:42,290 --> 01:07:39,180
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1502
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inflation and low returns call 866 to

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[Music]

1504
01:08:01,910 --> 01:07:58,100
sent it to news at the para caste calm

1505
01:08:03,830 --> 01:08:01,920
that's news at the para caste calm and

1506
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:03,840
don't forget to visit our famous para

1507
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1508
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1509
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1510
01:08:21,050 --> 01:08:16,740
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1511
01:08:23,510 --> 01:08:21,060
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1512
01:08:25,940 --> 01:08:23,520
we've got dr. Bruce Maccabee joining us

1513
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:25,950
he was continuing a long explanation and

1514
01:08:31,010 --> 01:08:28,290
we're up to the Soviet document level

1515
01:08:31,789 --> 01:08:31,020
what else well he wanted to talk to me

1516
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:31,799
about later

1517
01:08:35,809 --> 01:08:34,410
oh the experiments I had done on lasers

1518
01:08:37,490 --> 01:08:35,819
generally underwater sound turned out

1519
01:08:39,980 --> 01:08:37,500
that I was a friend of mine and I

1520
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:39,990
already like people in the Navy or doing

1521
01:08:45,289 --> 01:08:43,650
work on this stuff so we were we were

1522
01:08:47,150 --> 01:08:45,299
away or some extent of these only at

1523
01:08:49,480 --> 01:08:47,160
work but not wasn't something we paid

1524
01:08:54,260 --> 01:08:49,490
close attention to so I'm gonna he

1525
01:08:56,539 --> 01:08:54,270
contacted me on this day in 1984 and he

1526
01:08:58,849 --> 01:08:56,549
wanted me to provide a briefing on the

1527
01:09:00,230 --> 01:08:58,859
next day for a group of people were

1528
01:09:02,570 --> 01:09:00,240
addressed in this lady's general

1529
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:02,580
underwater sound stuff and that was okay

1530
01:09:06,620 --> 01:09:04,770
I given lots of briefing so come up with

1531
01:09:09,140 --> 01:09:06,630
a briefing for the CIA in one day with a

1532
01:09:11,210 --> 01:09:09,150
sweat then a couple hours later I got

1533
01:09:13,190 --> 01:09:11,220
another phone call from more discussion

1534
01:09:14,690 --> 01:09:13,200
upon the nature of the briefing and so

1535
01:09:17,150 --> 01:09:14,700
on and then he says something like I

1536
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:17,160
understand you've been here before and I

1537
01:09:21,530 --> 01:09:18,960
sort of froze in my tracks in a sense

1538
01:09:23,480 --> 01:09:21,540
because I had to admit that I had been

1539
01:09:25,190 --> 01:09:23,490
there before but doesn't have anything

1540
01:09:27,410 --> 01:09:25,200
to do laters generator underwater sound

1541
01:09:30,650 --> 01:09:27,420
I was certainly not intending to bring

1542
01:09:32,930 --> 01:09:30,660
up the UFO aspect to him but he

1543
01:09:34,970 --> 01:09:32,940
basically brought it up to me he said

1544
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:34,980
that he had in Michigan I was coming to

1545
01:09:40,490 --> 01:09:37,920
talk about this underwater sound and one

1546
01:09:42,650 --> 01:09:40,500
of the people he had told recognized my

1547
01:09:46,970 --> 01:09:42,660
name and had been in that meeting that

1548
01:09:48,230 --> 01:09:46,980
was kid green Christopher green and so

1549
01:09:50,059 --> 01:09:48,240
that may be that establish the

1550
01:09:55,970 --> 01:09:50,069
connection between UFOs and me and the

1551
01:09:59,030 --> 01:09:55,980
CIA and so in the following years we

1552
01:10:02,210 --> 01:09:59,040
often discuss various aspects of a UFO

1553
01:10:06,620 --> 01:10:02,220
or UFO sightings are stuff with going on

1554
01:10:08,010 --> 01:10:06,630
in UFO field I meet was a pet awfully a

1555
01:10:11,010 --> 01:10:08,020
couple of times a year

1556
01:10:14,210 --> 01:10:11,020
there's work on this later generator

1557
01:10:16,290 --> 01:10:14,220
underwater sound we were close to a

1558
01:10:20,730 --> 01:10:16,300
attempting to get funding for a major

1559
01:10:22,980 --> 01:10:20,740
field experiment and in 1985 for example

1560
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:22,990
at that time we worked our way up to the

1561
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:25,930
Admiral level for presentations we five

1562
01:10:30,990 --> 01:10:28,480
Admirals in one day Qaddafi was there

1563
01:10:33,870 --> 01:10:31,000
giving us a security briefing at the

1564
01:10:35,870 --> 01:10:33,880
same time rather briefing on what the

1565
01:10:40,050 --> 01:10:35,880
Soviet staffs of Soviet researchers

1566
01:10:44,550 --> 01:10:40,060
understood by the CIA anyway that's

1567
01:10:46,500 --> 01:10:44,560
about establish the contact and so I was

1568
01:10:48,270 --> 01:10:46,510
paying careful attention to the people

1569
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:48,280
that I talked with the agency to see if

1570
01:10:53,310 --> 01:10:49,840
any of them knew more than I did about

1571
01:10:57,050 --> 01:10:53,320
the subject - yeah you saw Alexander I

1572
01:10:59,550 --> 01:10:57,060
sort of assumed if they had somebody

1573
01:11:03,450 --> 01:10:59,560
officially working on this project on

1574
01:11:06,210 --> 01:11:03,460
UFOs then that person would know more

1575
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:06,220
about it than I do and give himself away

1576
01:11:12,150 --> 01:11:09,600
somehow if that person existed which I

1577
01:11:14,340 --> 01:11:12,160
assume they do that person would

1578
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:14,350
probably be under Pandolfi wouldn't you

1579
01:11:24,570 --> 01:11:19,890
think it's signed somebody under and

1580
01:11:27,690 --> 01:11:24,580
dreamed was the guy I talked to in 79 it

1581
01:11:29,820 --> 01:11:27,700
was still there in 84 and then he

1582
01:11:31,770 --> 01:11:29,830
retired a couple years later and have

1583
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:31,780
alphie took all the so-called weird desk

1584
01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:35,770
I like that the weird desk that sounds

1585
01:11:41,550 --> 01:11:37,450
like my desk just looking at it here in

1586
01:11:44,910 --> 01:11:41,560
my office 1987 was a big year for boy

1587
01:11:49,130 --> 01:11:44,920
I'll say it was that the conference in

1588
01:11:52,290 --> 01:11:49,140
DC must have cost a lot of money and

1589
01:11:54,270 --> 01:11:52,300
this recent conference they had last

1590
01:11:56,250 --> 01:11:54,280
week where they had four people or four

1591
01:11:58,620 --> 01:11:56,260
people on a panel a American University

1592
01:12:00,780 --> 01:11:58,630
and I sent one message I sent the guy

1593
01:12:02,670 --> 01:12:00,790
who put it together a message saying you

1594
01:12:08,330 --> 01:12:02,680
know what you've done is not so unique

1595
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:12,300
Bruce who funded that 1987 conference

1596
01:12:19,110 --> 01:12:17,050
I've heard us mention that a very kind

1597
01:12:21,510 --> 01:12:19,120
of shadowy company called Cayman tempo

1598
01:12:25,260 --> 01:12:21,520
was footing the bill for that conference

1599
01:12:27,480 --> 01:12:25,270
that one of the four directors you know

1600
01:12:29,370 --> 01:12:27,490
who was you would think with know was

1601
01:12:31,050 --> 01:12:29,380
funding the conference of being that

1602
01:12:33,090 --> 01:12:31,060
they were involved in the actual

1603
01:12:34,710 --> 01:12:33,100
planning and and and and everything

1604
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:34,720
before the conference she the director

1605
01:12:38,220 --> 01:12:36,370
didn't even know who was paying all

1606
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:38,230
these air fares and putting people up at

1607
01:12:42,060 --> 01:12:40,690
fancy hotels and feeding them did tell

1608
01:12:45,870 --> 01:12:42,070
us about came and tempo and their

1609
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:45,880
involvement in that comment I guess I've

1610
01:12:52,170 --> 01:12:47,890
heard of it but there isn't anything to

1611
01:12:54,660 --> 01:12:52,180
do with us funding was raised by the fun

1612
01:12:57,060 --> 01:12:54,670
fearful research in nineteen you know

1613
01:12:58,350 --> 01:12:57,070
and their newfound works at the end of

1614
01:13:00,210 --> 01:12:58,360
each conference they tell whether the

1615
01:13:02,700 --> 01:13:00,220
next conference is going to be who's

1616
01:13:04,650 --> 01:13:02,710
going to be putting it on and so in the

1617
01:13:06,150 --> 01:13:04,660
nineteen eighty six count at the end of

1618
01:13:07,620 --> 01:13:06,160
the nineteen eighty six conference we

1619
01:13:10,740 --> 01:13:07,630
announced the fun trio for research

1620
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:10,750
would put the fur but the 40th

1621
01:13:20,580 --> 01:13:15,010
anniversary UFO conference on focused

1622
01:13:22,410 --> 01:13:20,590
anniversary of UFOs in Washington DC at

1623
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:22,420
which point I begin a mad scramble for

1624
01:13:27,390 --> 01:13:24,730
how do we do it and I was a head of the

1625
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:27,400
fund at the time so I knew all details

1626
01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:29,290
of what was going on

1627
01:13:34,350 --> 01:13:32,800
we made an appeal for funding we wanted

1628
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:34,360
to do an international conference a real

1629
01:13:37,170 --> 01:13:35,770
international conference looking at

1630
01:13:41,060 --> 01:13:37,180
people from other countries for the

1631
01:13:44,670 --> 01:13:41,070
first time there we got funding from a

1632
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:44,680
number of people contributed people not

1633
01:13:57,440 --> 01:13:49,570
companies a big contribution from the

1634
01:13:59,870 --> 01:13:57,450
principal fellow Hans fiction Stein and

1635
01:14:02,430 --> 01:13:59,880
hundreds of other people I guess I

1636
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:02,440
remember I'll take all fine details of

1637
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:04,810
his hunting just this long afterwards

1638
01:14:09,180 --> 01:14:06,850
but it was basically money raised by the

1639
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:09,190
fun fearful research and lately

1640
01:14:14,660 --> 01:14:11,170
Schreiber guaranteed a certain amount of

1641
01:14:19,020 --> 01:14:14,670
money as well as we did if we over ran

1642
01:14:21,930 --> 01:14:19,030
our budget wasn't that kind of Whitley's

1643
01:14:24,330 --> 01:14:21,940
coming-out party I recalled talking to

1644
01:14:25,950 --> 01:14:24,340
somebody who was there that made the

1645
01:14:28,430 --> 01:14:25,960
comment oh boy we're seeing the birth of

1646
01:14:31,980 --> 01:14:28,440
a new religion when the the whole

1647
01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:31,990
communion who blog started right around

1648
01:14:36,740 --> 01:14:33,360
that time wasn't that his real

1649
01:14:41,149 --> 01:14:36,750
coming-out party well communion was

1650
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:41,159
published in February of 1987 intruders

1651
01:14:46,580 --> 01:14:43,170
by Hopkins was published in March of

1652
01:14:50,750 --> 01:14:46,590
1987 the view of the mj-12 documents

1653
01:14:54,050 --> 01:14:50,760
were publicized first by Timothy good in

1654
01:14:59,450 --> 01:14:54,060
his book above top secret and I think

1655
01:15:00,830 --> 01:14:59,460
May of 1987 and then one more same

1656
01:15:04,070 --> 01:15:00,840
agenda they went public with what they

1657
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:04,080
had had since 1984 that had the mj-12

1658
01:15:08,689 --> 01:15:05,730
documents and they went public with that

1659
01:15:11,180 --> 01:15:08,699
in June I guess in 1980 I got all the

1660
01:15:14,629 --> 01:15:11,190
dates there yeah that's that's a that's

1661
01:15:16,370 --> 01:15:14,639
a major that's a major road on Domino's

1662
01:15:19,700 --> 01:15:16,380
coming out in just a matter of four

1663
01:15:23,510 --> 01:15:19,710
months Domino's was the Japan Airlines

1664
01:15:25,700 --> 01:15:23,520
case the FAA was investigating so right

1665
01:15:28,669 --> 01:15:25,710
at the beginning of 1987 you had a major

1666
01:15:30,109 --> 01:15:28,679
publicity of about UFOs when the FAA

1667
01:15:32,959 --> 01:15:30,119
said it was gonna investigate the jet

1668
01:15:35,959 --> 01:15:32,969
Japan Airlines sighting and then I give

1669
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:35,969
you might call quote the true story

1670
01:15:44,510 --> 01:15:39,360
unquote of how I managed a very big

1671
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:44,520
paper on a Japan case involving part of

1672
01:15:49,310 --> 01:15:46,050
my investigation involves talking to

1673
01:15:53,290 --> 01:15:49,320
Jaya John Callahan who at the time was

1674
01:16:02,140 --> 01:15:57,169
NTSB I think wasn't you he was a head of

1675
01:16:05,090 --> 01:16:02,150
Investigations wait yeah all right and

1676
01:16:09,290 --> 01:16:05,100
ten years later when he retired he came

1677
01:16:11,209 --> 01:16:09,300
out Pro UFO right well the point is the

1678
01:16:13,399 --> 01:16:11,219
Japan Airlines case with all that

1679
01:16:15,770 --> 01:16:13,409
publicity around that then the communion

1680
01:16:19,100 --> 01:16:15,780
book in the intruders book then

1681
01:16:20,870 --> 01:16:19,110
mj-12 all these things happening within

1682
01:16:23,060 --> 01:16:20,880
weeks and once the one earlier and then

1683
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:23,070
the big blowup filled up to the news on

1684
01:16:28,669 --> 01:16:26,010
symposium let's go into that in a moment

1685
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:28,679
we've got dr. Bruce Maccabee with us

1686
01:16:35,779 --> 01:16:31,050
with Jean and Chris you're in the para

1687
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:38,580
you're listening to GCN proudly

1688
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sponsored by unseen now calm lockdown

1689
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1691
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1692
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us it does not use any database you get

1693
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1694
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1695
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graphic converter and a powerful browser

1696
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opens up to show your image files you

1697
01:17:07,620 --> 01:17:05,349
could use it for slideshows you could

1698
01:17:09,959 --> 01:17:07,630
use it to import images from digital

1699
01:17:12,089 --> 01:17:09,969
cameras or from scanners need to do some

1700
01:17:14,459 --> 01:17:12,099
image editing you can do that too in

1701
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graphic converter also print catalogs

1702
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1704
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1705
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like one and a half million of their

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1707
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when you buy graphic converter use the

1708
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1709
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1710
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for graphic converter go to Lemke soft

1711
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commnets le MK e soft calm

1712
01:17:50,189 --> 01:17:48,760
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1713
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have relatives and friends that are

1714
01:17:53,699 --> 01:17:51,909
convinced there is no need ever to

1715
01:17:55,319 --> 01:17:53,709
prepare for any kind of emergency are

1716
01:17:57,899 --> 01:17:55,329
these also folks you buy Christmas

1717
01:17:59,459 --> 01:17:57,909
presents for at thirty day food supply

1718
01:18:01,770 --> 01:17:59,469
calm we can solve both of these problems

1719
01:18:04,169 --> 01:18:01,780
at the same time go to 30 day food

1720
01:18:06,810 --> 01:18:04,179
supply calm or call five four one two

1721
01:18:08,339 --> 01:18:06,820
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1722
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1723
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1724
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1725
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1726
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1727
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1728
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1729
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1730
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1731
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1732
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and 30-day food supply comm keep prices

1733
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low cutting out the middleman by buying

1734
01:18:34,830 --> 01:18:33,010
directly from their producers in Oregon

1735
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:34,840
remember only ten dollars shifts your

1736
01:18:39,660 --> 01:18:37,090
entire order to the lower 48 visit the

1737
01:18:42,390 --> 01:18:39,670
website 30-day food supply comm call

1738
01:18:45,149 --> 01:18:42,400
five four one two two nine zero zero ten

1739
01:18:45,939 --> 01:18:45,159
thirty day food supply calm five four

1740
01:18:49,029 --> 01:18:45,949
one two

1741
01:18:51,100 --> 01:18:49,039
two nine zero zero ten it's that time of

1742
01:18:53,410 --> 01:18:51,110
year again and you know what that means

1743
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:53,420
cold and flu season but don't worry

1744
01:18:57,129 --> 01:18:55,489
verbal healer calm has you and your

1745
01:18:59,439 --> 01:18:57,139
loved ones covered with our safe and

1746
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1747
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:01,909
like beta glucans olive leaf antiviral

1748
01:19:06,819 --> 01:19:04,010
capsules grapefruit seed extract

1749
01:19:08,979 --> 01:19:06,829
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1750
01:19:11,949 --> 01:19:08,989
and respirate and don't forget about

1751
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:11,959
Arreaga cylinder the lungs normally 3495

1752
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1753
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1754
01:19:22,930 --> 01:19:20,959
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1755
01:19:26,620 --> 01:19:22,940
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1756
01:19:28,660 --> 01:19:26,630
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1757
01:19:30,129 --> 01:19:28,670
also offers correspondence courses to

1758
01:19:32,799 --> 01:19:30,139
teach you how to handle your health

1759
01:19:35,259 --> 01:19:32,809
naturally and as always new customers

1760
01:19:37,810 --> 01:19:35,269
get a free 128 page catalog with your

1761
01:19:39,580 --> 01:19:37,820
order visit herbal healer calm and click

1762
01:19:41,169 --> 01:19:39,590
the winter specials button to save on

1763
01:19:43,719 --> 01:19:41,179
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1764
01:19:45,609 --> 01:19:43,729
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1765
01:19:49,959 --> 01:19:45,619
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1766
01:19:52,239 --> 01:19:49,969
since 1988 for over five years you've

1767
01:19:54,339 --> 01:19:52,249
been hearing about the Berkey guy so you

1768
01:19:56,290 --> 01:19:54,349
may know a few things about him for

1769
01:19:58,359 --> 01:19:56,300
example you are well aware of the

1770
01:20:00,969 --> 01:19:58,369
superior quality and effectiveness of

1771
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:00,979
berkey water filters and accessories but

1772
01:20:05,020 --> 01:20:02,690
did you know the burpees have had

1773
01:20:07,359 --> 01:20:05,030
independent lab tests done to prove just

1774
01:20:09,219 --> 01:20:07,369
how effective they are it's true and he

1775
01:20:11,979 --> 01:20:09,229
can email you the test results just

1776
01:20:14,049 --> 01:20:11,989
visit go Berkey dot-com you may also

1777
01:20:15,790 --> 01:20:14,059
know that the Berkey guy has helped tens

1778
01:20:17,649 --> 01:20:15,800
of thousands of people get better

1779
01:20:20,529 --> 01:20:17,659
prepared now here's something you may

1780
01:20:22,810 --> 01:20:20,539
not know go Berkey dot-com has amazing

1781
01:20:24,489 --> 01:20:22,820
specials and deals all the time on a

1782
01:20:26,859 --> 01:20:24,499
wide variety of survival and

1783
01:20:29,799 --> 01:20:26,869
preparedness products most ready to ship

1784
01:20:32,020 --> 01:20:29,809
same day visit the Berkey guy at Gober

1785
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:32,030
keep calm and be sure to click the red

1786
01:20:38,799 --> 01:20:34,610
products on sale now button you can

1787
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:38,809
always call toll free 8 7 7 8 8 6 3 6 5

1788
01:20:51,819 --> 01:20:42,170
3 again that's eight seven 7 eight 8 6 3

1789
01:20:57,050 --> 01:20:54,770
hello this is rosemary ellen guiley and

1790
01:20:59,730 --> 01:20:57,060
you're listening to the podcast the gold

1791
01:21:11,940 --> 01:20:59,740
standard a paranormal radio

1792
01:21:17,370 --> 01:21:15,490
all right so we're going back to this

1793
01:21:19,630 --> 01:21:17,380
rather interesting time in the late

1794
01:21:22,270 --> 01:21:19,640
1980s when all this stuff was coming out

1795
01:21:23,650 --> 01:21:22,280
at the same time including mj-12 and I

1796
01:21:24,130 --> 01:21:23,660
want to ask you more about that in a

1797
01:21:26,380 --> 01:21:24,140
moment

1798
01:21:29,410 --> 01:21:26,390
dr. Bruce Maccabee maybe you can go on

1799
01:21:31,060 --> 01:21:29,420
with your considerations well we got

1800
01:21:32,380 --> 01:21:31,070
closer to the neutron symposium of

1801
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:32,390
course the press started taking an

1802
01:21:35,470 --> 01:21:34,370
active interest people who know

1803
01:21:38,710 --> 01:21:35,480
something we're going to be in the

1804
01:21:41,020 --> 01:21:38,720
conference we're getting introduced all

1805
01:21:43,630 --> 01:21:41,030
over the place I listed a number of

1806
01:21:45,790 --> 01:21:43,640
things that I was involved in and I was

1807
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:45,800
on Nightline and a couple of major

1808
01:21:50,590 --> 01:21:48,650
newspapers interviews and so on and

1809
01:21:52,990 --> 01:21:50,600
Emily had arranged to give a briefing

1810
01:21:57,730 --> 01:21:53,000
well first of all at the National Press

1811
01:21:59,530 --> 01:21:57,740
Club the speakers from a number of

1812
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:59,540
different countries as far away as

1813
01:22:04,540 --> 01:22:00,320
Australia

1814
01:22:08,830 --> 01:22:04,550
I think Chile in Brazil no Chile and

1815
01:22:12,490 --> 01:22:08,840
Argentina Italy Britain Canada United

1816
01:22:15,330 --> 01:22:12,500
States India I don't remember exactly

1817
01:22:17,650 --> 01:22:15,340
all countries we had a bunch of them

1818
01:22:19,450 --> 01:22:17,660
somebody raised enough money to bring

1819
01:22:22,150 --> 01:22:19,460
these people over and take care of them

1820
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:22,160
and send them back again so it was quite

1821
01:22:26,070 --> 01:22:23,890
an expensive conference but we the

1822
01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:26,080
donations with a lot of people plus the

1823
01:22:32,650 --> 01:22:30,560
budget that we expect anyway well you

1824
01:22:37,090 --> 01:22:32,660
mentioned Liechtenstein it was a defense

1825
01:22:38,500 --> 01:22:37,100
of Liechtenstein that doesn't just how

1826
01:22:41,650 --> 01:22:38,510
did he how was he involved in this how

1827
01:22:44,470 --> 01:22:41,660
did he get done he was interested in

1828
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:44,480
UFOs for a long time I converse with him

1829
01:22:52,270 --> 01:22:48,050
for 30 years now I guess but back in the

1830
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:52,280
late 70s and early 80s he was very

1831
01:22:55,420 --> 01:22:53,930
interested in the subject he had to keep

1832
01:23:00,700 --> 01:22:55,430
it quiet cuz he was a head of a country

1833
01:23:07,140 --> 01:23:00,710
I have a country with pockets deep

1834
01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:09,010
listen there's a lot of ground to cover

1835
01:23:12,550 --> 01:23:11,120
here and I don't want to keep jumping up

1836
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:12,560
with things we kind of have to because

1837
01:23:16,870 --> 01:23:14,570
we wanna get into a lot more subjects

1838
01:23:19,330 --> 01:23:16,880
obviously one of the big events in the

1839
01:23:21,970 --> 01:23:19,340
late 80s was the revelation about these

1840
01:23:22,879 --> 01:23:21,980
mj-12 documents of course we had Timothy

1841
01:23:25,700 --> 01:23:22,889
good mention

1842
01:23:28,490 --> 01:23:25,710
spoke above top-secret we had of course

1843
01:23:30,740 --> 01:23:28,500
more and shunned array but the question

1844
01:23:32,570 --> 01:23:30,750
I have here is because it's become

1845
01:23:34,850 --> 01:23:32,580
controversial again because of this

1846
01:23:37,609 --> 01:23:34,860
recent resurrected debate between

1847
01:23:38,990 --> 01:23:37,619
Stanton Friedman and Robert Hastings and

1848
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:39,000
of course captain Randall doesn't

1849
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:40,650
believe in them either what's your

1850
01:23:45,709 --> 01:23:42,239
position about mj-12

1851
01:23:47,540 --> 01:23:45,719
well flash storage expands but I don't

1852
01:23:49,910 --> 01:23:47,550
use the documents as you notice I

1853
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:49,920
mentioned them in the book and I

1854
01:23:54,859 --> 01:23:53,010
mentioned that the CIA was apparently at

1855
01:23:56,959 --> 01:23:54,869
least Pandolfi there's at least as

1856
01:23:58,490 --> 01:23:56,969
puzzled as everybody else about all this

1857
01:24:01,609 --> 01:23:58,500
stuff and having to do with Richard Doty

1858
01:24:03,229 --> 01:24:01,619
and mj-12 and so on and off he carried

1859
01:24:06,500 --> 01:24:03,239
out his own investigations as far as I

1860
01:24:09,109 --> 01:24:06,510
could tell and didn't came up to the

1861
01:24:11,149 --> 01:24:09,119
blank I think the color twining document

1862
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:11,159
is real I've held that in my hands I

1863
01:24:15,550 --> 01:24:13,530
noticed this is the one that talks about

1864
01:24:19,010 --> 01:24:15,560
the MJ cross special studies project

1865
01:24:22,430 --> 01:24:19,020
mj-12 / SSP is this supposed to have a

1866
01:24:24,919 --> 01:24:22,440
meeting in about the 1964 and at any

1867
01:24:26,540 --> 01:24:24,929
rate the document has yellowed around

1868
01:24:28,370 --> 01:24:26,550
the edges which tells me the other thing

1869
01:24:31,129 --> 01:24:28,380
is laid flat and a stack of documents

1870
01:24:34,910 --> 01:24:31,139
for many years before I was stuffed into

1871
01:24:37,220 --> 01:24:34,920
a one of the file boxes and the National

1872
01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:37,230
Archives for more insanity to find

1873
01:24:42,770 --> 01:24:41,489
anyway okay dr. Maccabee excuse me I

1874
01:24:45,410 --> 01:24:42,780
hate to interrupt you just wanted to

1875
01:24:48,169 --> 01:24:45,420
stop on some point they can go on okay

1876
01:24:49,609 --> 01:24:48,179
the statement waiting to be found do you

1877
01:24:51,229 --> 01:24:49,619
think that was deliberate that they

1878
01:24:55,550 --> 01:24:51,239
deliberately put those documents in

1879
01:24:57,800 --> 01:24:55,560
there so someone would locate them I'm

1880
01:24:59,570 --> 01:24:57,810
sure they were put in there they had

1881
01:25:01,459 --> 01:24:59,580
nothing to do they had nothing to do

1882
01:25:04,879 --> 01:25:01,469
with where they were found in the file

1883
01:25:06,530 --> 01:25:04,889
box and of course according to sham

1884
01:25:09,490 --> 01:25:06,540
delay they had received a postcard with

1885
01:25:13,790 --> 01:25:09,500
a return address on it made no sense

1886
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:13,800
until you knew what box and the file

1887
01:25:22,129 --> 01:25:17,730
bought file in a box to look where look

1888
01:25:24,050 --> 01:25:22,139
for this document remember that the

1889
01:25:26,419 --> 01:25:24,060
point is feel or think they didn't

1890
01:25:28,189 --> 01:25:26,429
understand what that address meant until

1891
01:25:30,290 --> 01:25:28,199
after they had found the document just

1892
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:30,300
by a random search so you don't

1893
01:25:34,879 --> 01:25:31,770
subscribe to the possibility that

1894
01:25:37,109 --> 01:25:34,889
Richard Doty or people like him were

1895
01:25:41,530 --> 01:25:37,119
responsible for any of us

1896
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:41,540
well I don't I don't take any hard

1897
01:25:46,689 --> 01:25:44,570
position on my argumentation is not

1898
01:25:49,359 --> 01:25:46,699
based on whether mj-12 is really or not

1899
01:25:51,669 --> 01:25:49,369
well I would say that if Boswell is real

1900
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:51,679
when there's something like injures well

1901
01:25:55,810 --> 01:25:54,170
all right let's go back again through

1902
01:25:57,879 --> 01:25:55,820
the history with the CIA and everything

1903
01:25:59,530 --> 01:25:57,889
and this is kind of a sidelight you were

1904
01:26:00,970 --> 01:25:59,540
active of course in the National

1905
01:26:04,300 --> 01:26:00,980
investigations committee on aerial

1906
01:26:06,819 --> 01:26:04,310
phenomena the organization which Kehoe

1907
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:06,829
is director for a number of years what

1908
01:26:11,129 --> 01:26:09,650
was your take on the fact that the first

1909
01:26:14,950 --> 01:26:11,139
head of the CIA

1910
01:26:16,839 --> 01:26:14,960
Admiral Helen Carter was for a time part

1911
01:26:18,069 --> 01:26:16,849
of the board of directors of nightcap I

1912
01:26:23,350 --> 01:26:18,079
know a lot of people were kind of

1913
01:26:26,169 --> 01:26:23,360
suspicious of that I finished my comment

1914
01:26:28,689 --> 01:26:26,179
astra 1987 because it leads directly to

1915
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:28,699
one of the chapters in the book as I

1916
01:26:32,859 --> 01:26:30,530
said we had arranged for a press

1917
01:26:35,530 --> 01:26:32,869
conference for this international

1918
01:26:38,410 --> 01:26:35,540
speakers then we have a special briefing

1919
01:26:40,959 --> 01:26:38,420
for Congress the congressional aides

1920
01:26:44,169 --> 01:26:40,969
showed up the Rayburn building I think

1921
01:26:46,540 --> 01:26:44,179
it was a day before the conference began

1922
01:26:49,689 --> 01:26:46,550
and then we had the conference itself on

1923
01:26:51,850 --> 01:26:49,699
Friday inside of a Saturday night we had

1924
01:26:55,149 --> 01:26:51,860
over 500 people packed into a lecture

1925
01:26:58,209 --> 01:26:55,159
hall auditorium and for the first time

1926
01:27:02,770 --> 01:26:58,219
ever a collection of duckies appeared on

1927
01:27:06,430 --> 01:27:02,780
stage this whole thing made a huge

1928
01:27:08,500 --> 01:27:06,440
amount of press at the time and of

1929
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:08,510
course Pandolfi knew about what I was

1930
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:10,489
doing in there and everybody in the CIA

1931
01:27:14,890 --> 01:27:12,650
I guess has read the articles in the

1932
01:27:18,339 --> 01:27:14,900
paper so he suggested I give a talk

1933
01:27:21,580 --> 01:27:18,349
there and so I about a week after the

1934
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:21,590
conference I went in to do what he could

1935
01:27:25,419 --> 01:27:23,810
call the what he told me was the

1936
01:27:29,919 --> 01:27:25,429
directors conference room had a big long

1937
01:27:31,919 --> 01:27:29,929
table to the audience of 30 or 40 or 50

1938
01:27:34,959 --> 01:27:31,929
I don't know people's standing room only

1939
01:27:36,970 --> 01:27:34,969
I told them about their own documents

1940
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:36,980
most of them are maybe all of them

1941
01:27:42,669 --> 01:27:39,770
didn't even know the CIA had been

1942
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:42,679
involved in UFOs so I talk about their

1943
01:27:47,799 --> 01:27:45,050
own documents and I talk about various

1944
01:27:49,810 --> 01:27:47,809
cases and mj-12 and all that sort of

1945
01:27:51,430 --> 01:27:49,820
stuff afterwards

1946
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:51,440
they told me that I created a lot of

1947
01:27:56,890 --> 01:27:54,530
spies in the agency well that's one of

1948
01:27:59,500 --> 01:27:56,900
the chapters these people were using

1949
01:28:02,290 --> 01:27:59,510
their top-secret clearances to try to

1950
01:28:04,870 --> 01:28:02,300
probe into any information they could

1951
01:28:06,910 --> 01:28:04,880
get on flying saucers if they found

1952
01:28:08,260 --> 01:28:06,920
anything they didn't tell me I'm not

1953
01:28:11,919 --> 01:28:08,270
surprised I didn't have a clearance

1954
01:28:14,319 --> 01:28:11,929
level anyway you want to talk about Hell

1955
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:14,329
encoder right because of the fact that

1956
01:28:21,189 --> 01:28:18,170
yeah because of the fact that whether

1957
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:21,199
it's innocent or not and this is a

1958
01:28:26,530 --> 01:28:22,130
classmate of

1959
01:28:28,419 --> 01:28:26,540
Kehoe's in their youth whether that may

1960
01:28:30,819 --> 01:28:28,429
be cast a little suspicion on the

1961
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:30,829
organization how does a guy like that

1962
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:34,010
get involved in a civilian UFO research

1963
01:28:39,490 --> 01:28:37,730
group well buddy of Kino that's how I

1964
01:28:40,689 --> 01:28:39,500
get involved no the main thing that

1965
01:28:43,870 --> 01:28:40,699
Kehoe trusted him

1966
01:28:46,209 --> 01:28:43,880
I remember Helen Carter made some public

1967
01:28:49,839 --> 01:28:46,219
statements that are in the New York

1968
01:28:51,550 --> 01:28:49,849
Times saying that through threats of

1969
01:28:53,830 --> 01:28:51,560
retribution and secrecy has been

1970
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:53,840
maintained I'm not getting the exact

1971
01:28:57,839 --> 01:28:55,250
wording right a long time since I've

1972
01:29:01,689 --> 01:28:57,849
read it but basically it was blaming

1973
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:01,699
secrecy for making it look like the real

1974
01:29:05,729 --> 01:29:04,010
phenomenon was being covered up I wish I

1975
01:29:08,350 --> 01:29:05,739
could remember the exact phrasing to use

1976
01:29:11,260 --> 01:29:08,360
or was published publicized

1977
01:29:14,350 --> 01:29:11,270
but he was clearly not against being on

1978
01:29:16,569 --> 01:29:14,360
the UFO subcommittee yeah well from what

1979
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:16,579
he said it sounded like he was aware

1980
01:29:21,100 --> 01:29:18,530
that the subject was being covered up

1981
01:29:23,140 --> 01:29:21,110
you would think also as somebody who was

1982
01:29:25,300 --> 01:29:23,150
in his position at the time he was in

1983
01:29:27,819 --> 01:29:25,310
that position would have had intimate

1984
01:29:30,669 --> 01:29:27,829
knowledge of a nature of the cover-up

1985
01:29:33,339 --> 01:29:30,679
this is one of the top guys over there

1986
01:29:35,470 --> 01:29:33,349
how could he not know all the details

1987
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:35,480
that's the thing I wonder about we can

1988
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:37,730
go into that more in our next segment

1989
01:29:41,919 --> 01:29:39,650
before we go on to some other subjects

1990
01:29:44,500 --> 01:29:41,929
with dr. Bruce Maccabee and by the way I

1991
01:29:46,780 --> 01:29:44,510
did get a note from one of the

1992
01:29:48,430 --> 01:29:46,790
representatives over at MUFON they

1993
01:29:50,979 --> 01:29:48,440
wanted me to mention this so I'll do it

1994
01:29:53,620 --> 01:29:50,989
the executive director of the mutual UFO

1995
01:29:56,500 --> 01:29:53,630
network Jan horizon-- has placed an

1996
01:29:59,020 --> 01:29:56,510
online fundraiser on the Kickstarter

1997
01:30:01,810 --> 01:29:59,030
website their stated goal is to raise

1998
01:30:02,890 --> 01:30:01,820
seventy eight thousand dollars for a new

1999
01:30:05,290 --> 01:30:02,900
global data

2000
01:30:07,660 --> 01:30:05,300
base for UFO sighting reports you can

2001
01:30:10,919 --> 01:30:07,670
see the prototype of the home page for

2002
01:30:15,250 --> 01:30:10,929
the improve for the improved database at

2003
01:30:18,010 --> 01:30:15,260
wwm oof on redesign comm BET's MUFON

2004
01:30:20,950 --> 01:30:18,020
redesign comm or go to the Kickstarter

2005
01:30:23,290 --> 01:30:20,960
website to see a video explaining some

2006
01:30:26,830 --> 01:30:23,300
plans for the new system it ends Tuesday

2007
01:30:29,770 --> 01:30:26,840
December 2nd so if you've heard the show

2008
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:29,780
before them check it out with gene and

2009
01:30:49,270 --> 01:30:47,330
Chris you're in because so here's what

2010
01:30:52,419 --> 01:30:49,280
happened I was placing an order online

2011
01:30:54,220 --> 01:30:52,429
the site went down it took hours before

2012
01:30:56,110 --> 01:30:54,230
it returned but I'd already placed the

2013
01:30:58,570 --> 01:30:56,120
order with another company if your site

2014
01:31:00,130 --> 01:30:58,580
goes down you could lose business and if

2015
01:31:02,410 --> 01:31:00,140
you have a business or personal site

2016
01:31:05,979 --> 01:31:02,420
you'll want to know it's easy to run and

2017
01:31:08,380 --> 01:31:05,989
it will stay online at iWeb your site is

2018
01:31:11,169 --> 01:31:08,390
hosted on one of the most reliable

2019
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:11,179
networks in the world talk to a sales

2020
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:14,330
rep at a web.com use the promo code tech

2021
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:16,610
night-owl for a special discount first

2022
01:31:20,350 --> 01:31:18,290
game attack of the rock codes and it was

2023
01:31:22,300 --> 01:31:20,360
a critically acclaimed success and now

2024
01:31:24,430 --> 01:31:22,310
there is the coming of the protectors a

2025
01:31:26,709 --> 01:31:24,440
former military intelligence man is

2026
01:31:28,750 --> 01:31:26,719
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

2027
01:31:30,939 --> 01:31:28,760
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

2028
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:30,949
because evil forces on our distant

2029
01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:32,690
planet are planning to conquer the earth

2030
01:31:37,780 --> 01:31:35,330
this is gripping science fiction of the

2031
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:37,790
classic kind attack of the rock codes

2032
01:31:41,919 --> 01:31:39,530
and the coming of the protectors

2033
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:41,929
find out more at Rocko is calm that's

2034
01:31:48,700 --> 01:31:46,130
rock oyd sorrow CK oids dot-com ever

2035
01:31:50,830 --> 01:31:48,710
need direction or guidance ask the light

2036
01:31:52,979 --> 01:31:50,840
like to have a quick source of insight

2037
01:31:54,750 --> 01:31:52,989
and inspiration ask the

2038
01:31:57,300 --> 01:31:54,760
would you like an easy way to spread

2039
01:31:59,820 --> 01:31:57,310
kindness in this crazy world ask the

2040
01:32:02,070 --> 01:31:59,830
light ask the light miracle cards from

2041
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:02,080
ask the light calm were created in the

2042
01:32:06,750 --> 01:32:04,570
aftermath of a true miracle beautiful

2043
01:32:08,790 --> 01:32:06,760
underwater photography capturing the

2044
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:08,800
dance of water and light are combined

2045
01:32:13,830 --> 01:32:11,050
with inspirational words to create the

2046
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2047
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2048
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2049
01:32:23,610 --> 01:32:20,949
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2050
01:32:25,620 --> 01:32:23,620
miracles spread some kindness by giving

2051
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a card away it's a great way to connect

2052
01:32:30,060 --> 01:32:27,699
with people these cards bring blessings

2053
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:30,070
to all that experience them experience

2054
01:32:34,650 --> 01:32:32,410
the many benefits for yourself visit ask

2055
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2056
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2057
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or two for $30 they make great gifts for

2058
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friends and family to ask the light

2059
01:32:52,229 --> 01:32:50,189
Alex Jones you for the last two years

2060
01:32:54,660 --> 01:32:52,239
I've been working with top doctors

2061
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nutritionists and chemists to design a

2062
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2063
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2064
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2065
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2068
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2069
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2070
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2071
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2072
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2073
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2074
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2075
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2076
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2077
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2078
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2079
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2080
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2081
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2082
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2085
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2086
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2087
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2088
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2089
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2090
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2091
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2092
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2099
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2100
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2101
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2102
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2104
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2105
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call 185 905 my TV 180 55 905 my TV say

2106
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goodbye to the Cable Guy cut costs and

2107
01:34:58,380 --> 01:34:56,220
[Music]

2108
01:35:07,670 --> 01:34:58,390
hi my name is Richard Dolan you're

2109
01:35:15,930 --> 01:35:11,730
don't forget plus dr. Peric ascom plus

2110
01:35:19,590 --> 01:35:15,940
PL us dot the para cast comm check out

2111
01:35:22,740 --> 01:35:19,600
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2112
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2114
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2116
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2117
01:35:40,350 --> 01:35:36,340
we have a chat room and starting this

2118
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:40,360
week we'll be debuting after the para

2119
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:42,970
cast the after the para cast podcast

2120
01:35:49,440 --> 01:35:46,330
with color commentary and more plus the

2121
01:35:51,690 --> 01:35:49,450
power cast calm dr. Bruce Maccabee is

2122
01:35:54,030 --> 01:35:51,700
here and I was just mentioning briefly

2123
01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:54,040
about the fact that the first have the

2124
01:35:59,940 --> 01:35:56,050
CIA got involved in the civilian UFO

2125
01:36:02,940 --> 01:35:59,950
research organization and do you think

2126
01:36:06,090 --> 01:36:02,950
maybe they kept them in the dark on any

2127
01:36:08,610 --> 01:36:06,100
of this he may well have known the the

2128
01:36:10,620 --> 01:36:08,620
big secret that this is and this is his

2129
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:10,630
way of getting out information that

2130
01:36:15,870 --> 01:36:14,050
should keep the non-cleared people

2131
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:15,880
interested in a subject in other words a

2132
01:36:20,480 --> 01:36:17,530
way of sort of leaking enough

2133
01:36:22,950 --> 01:36:20,490
information and learning is lending his

2134
01:36:24,380 --> 01:36:22,960
stature to the idea that there was

2135
01:36:27,390 --> 01:36:24,390
something going on

2136
01:36:28,110 --> 01:36:27,400
actually leaking any classified

2137
01:36:30,510 --> 01:36:28,120
information

2138
01:36:33,210 --> 01:36:30,520
I presume you know where that con

2139
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:33,220
quarter was not the only CIA guy in the

2140
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:35,650
night before de contrôle had a couple of

2141
01:36:42,900 --> 01:36:39,850
people in the last nigh cap director was

2142
01:36:45,570 --> 01:36:42,910
a CIA agent there have been allegations

2143
01:36:49,350 --> 01:36:45,580
of Nike of CIA crime himself eight nine

2144
01:36:51,660 --> 01:36:49,360
i cap but you don't accept that well I

2145
01:36:54,030 --> 01:36:51,670
know that the remember several members

2146
01:36:56,370 --> 01:36:54,040
were part of the CIA whether this was an

2147
01:37:00,060 --> 01:36:56,380
intentional or filtration infiltration

2148
01:37:02,670 --> 01:37:00,070
that learned quote secrets unquote my

2149
01:37:05,460 --> 01:37:02,680
cap had like a I've had a whole bunch of

2150
01:37:07,410 --> 01:37:05,470
citing cases ten thousand of them or

2151
01:37:09,780 --> 01:37:07,420
something like that that was the only

2152
01:37:12,330 --> 01:37:09,790
information really that was the real

2153
01:37:15,570 --> 01:37:12,340
value and I cap especially by the time

2154
01:37:19,290 --> 01:37:15,580
when I kept closed in 1980 there's a new

2155
01:37:20,770 --> 01:37:19,300
NICAP by the way which is on we're not

2156
01:37:23,750 --> 01:37:20,780
related to the old

2157
01:37:26,500 --> 01:37:23,760
just taking an old name and rebooting it

2158
01:37:29,210 --> 01:37:26,510
also from time to time over the years

2159
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:29,220
one of the other key figures at nightcap

2160
01:37:35,030 --> 01:37:31,770
Richard Hall who basically was the

2161
01:37:37,310 --> 01:37:35,040
office manager in the 60s the key ho

2162
01:37:39,230 --> 01:37:37,320
wasn't in there every single day he'd

2163
01:37:42,650 --> 01:37:39,240
come in a couple of times a week but

2164
01:37:44,300 --> 01:37:42,660
Richard Hall ran the show and some

2165
01:37:46,700 --> 01:37:44,310
people talked about his possible

2166
01:37:48,860 --> 01:37:46,710
military and intelligence connections

2167
01:37:53,390 --> 01:37:48,870
what do you say about that well he

2168
01:37:54,980 --> 01:37:53,400
publicly stated that he has in the CIA

2169
01:38:00,740 --> 01:37:54,990
had tried to recruit him and he had

2170
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:00,750
turned him down as for any other any

2171
01:38:06,290 --> 01:38:02,610
other aspects of his military I don't

2172
01:38:08,780 --> 01:38:06,300
know about all right let's move to some

2173
01:38:10,610 --> 01:38:08,790
other case histories here obviously

2174
01:38:13,550 --> 01:38:10,620
there's a segment in your book where you

2175
01:38:16,340 --> 01:38:13,560
talk a lot about your involvement in the

2176
01:38:18,950 --> 01:38:16,350
Socorro New Mexico case which to this

2177
01:38:22,130 --> 01:38:18,960
day is considered one of the best UFO

2178
01:38:26,530 --> 01:38:22,140
cases ever so how did you get involved

2179
01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:26,540
in the investigation of that well I I

2180
01:38:31,790 --> 01:38:28,650
included it because it was in the SDI

2181
01:38:33,830 --> 01:38:31,800
file and an FBI agent was one of the

2182
01:38:37,220 --> 01:38:33,840
guys who was one of the first people on

2183
01:38:38,450 --> 01:38:37,230
the spot to interview tomorrow as a

2184
01:38:40,370 --> 01:38:38,460
matter of fact they stayed up all night

2185
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:40,380
til two o'clock in the morning or

2186
01:38:45,590 --> 01:38:41,930
something like that

2187
01:38:47,450 --> 01:38:45,600
interviews tomorrow and then he wrote a

2188
01:38:51,290 --> 01:38:47,460
teletype message which I actually

2189
01:38:54,170 --> 01:38:51,300
started the book off with the beginning

2190
01:38:57,050 --> 01:38:54,180
of the teletype message well Bruce you

2191
01:38:59,750 --> 01:38:57,060
know I read the socorro section and I

2192
01:39:01,600 --> 01:38:59,760
was I was kind of taken aback that you

2193
01:39:04,300 --> 01:39:01,610
never mentioned race Stanford's

2194
01:39:06,980 --> 01:39:04,310
incredibly accurate an excellent book

2195
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:06,990
sacral saucer and a Pentagon pantry and

2196
01:39:13,460 --> 01:39:09,810
you also never mention the collection of

2197
01:39:16,610 --> 01:39:13,470
metal scrapings that were bladed off the

2198
01:39:19,820 --> 01:39:16,620
landing strut in the ravine there that

2199
01:39:22,490 --> 01:39:19,830
was subsequently taken through Richard

2200
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:22,500
Hall's connections to the Goddard

2201
01:39:27,870 --> 01:39:26,010
Materials Space Flight entrails lab to

2202
01:39:29,610 --> 01:39:27,880
be never returned

2203
01:39:31,350 --> 01:39:29,620
you never mentioned any of those things

2204
01:39:34,440 --> 01:39:31,360
well what do you what are your comments

2205
01:39:38,820 --> 01:39:34,450
about Ray's book Ray's work on that case

2206
01:39:40,530 --> 01:39:38,830
and some of the interesting subterfuge

2207
01:39:43,020 --> 01:39:40,540
that went on with that physical evidence

2208
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:43,030
yeah I think that's all true but I was

2209
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:45,730
just speaking to basically the FBI part

2210
01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:48,610
of it I copied yes yeah what the FBI had

2211
01:39:54,240 --> 01:39:52,090
said and put a put in some of its

2212
01:39:57,060 --> 01:39:54,250
historical background I wasn't intending

2213
01:40:02,730 --> 01:39:57,070
it to be a the world's most complete

2214
01:40:06,300 --> 01:40:02,740
analysis of a socorro case right sample

2215
01:40:08,940 --> 01:40:06,310
being taken in preliminary results being

2216
01:40:10,430 --> 01:40:08,950
very exciting given to Stanford and

2217
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:10,440
other members of his organ is

2218
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:12,970
investigative group there and then boom

2219
01:40:19,130 --> 01:40:16,810
all of a sudden the samples are gone and

2220
01:40:22,290 --> 01:40:19,140
and they're they're given a runaround by

2221
01:40:26,220 --> 01:40:22,300
by these individuals and and this led to

2222
01:40:30,210 --> 01:40:26,230
a pissing match between Stanford and in

2223
01:40:31,710 --> 01:40:30,220
Richard Hall for 40-plus years I would

2224
01:40:33,320 --> 01:40:31,720
think that that would be something that

2225
01:40:37,170 --> 01:40:33,330
at least should should get a mention

2226
01:40:40,410 --> 01:40:37,180
well if you had written the book I

2227
01:40:44,670 --> 01:40:40,420
suppose it would have instead I took up

2228
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:44,680
space talking about Clinton Ella's

2229
01:40:53,010 --> 01:40:50,530
version impressions and as I said I put

2230
01:40:58,170 --> 01:40:53,020
it in there mainly because it was though

2231
01:41:00,060 --> 01:40:58,180
it's the last UFO case this SBI actually

2232
01:41:03,390 --> 01:41:00,070
was involved in investigating and that

2233
01:41:05,100 --> 01:41:03,400
was unofficial so I put in the part of

2234
01:41:07,380 --> 01:41:05,110
it had to do with the FBI and the

2235
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:07,390
partner headed over the Air Force I was

2236
01:41:15,750 --> 01:41:11,770
certain I defer to race book if I were

2237
01:41:18,660 --> 01:41:15,760
going to do a major investigation of

2238
01:41:21,480 --> 01:41:18,670
this a car case do know that you know

2239
01:41:25,470 --> 01:41:21,490
the film that was taken from officer

2240
01:41:27,930 --> 01:41:25,480
Jordan and not returned because it had

2241
01:41:29,850 --> 01:41:27,940
been fogged you know that Hynek later in

2242
01:41:32,810 --> 01:41:29,860
a videotaped interview with Stanford a

2243
01:41:36,030 --> 01:41:32,820
number of years later did confirm that

2244
01:41:38,490 --> 01:41:36,040
the film was damaged by radiation and

2245
01:41:40,140 --> 01:41:38,500
that it wasn't a return to Jordan right

2246
01:41:41,429 --> 01:41:40,150
away because it might hold clues to an

2247
01:41:43,049 --> 01:41:41,439
exotic propulsion says

2248
01:41:46,649 --> 01:41:43,059
are you wear that Hynek went on the

2249
01:41:49,699 --> 01:41:46,659
record publicly and stated that no no I

2250
01:41:53,209 --> 01:41:49,709
may have been years ago I don't remember

2251
01:41:55,649 --> 01:41:53,219
Ray's book Jordan signed an affidavit

2252
01:41:57,299 --> 01:41:55,659
telling exactly what happened with that

2253
01:41:59,459 --> 01:41:57,309
film and I think that's a key piece of

2254
01:42:02,939 --> 01:41:59,469
evidence for Socorro along with the

2255
01:42:05,399 --> 01:42:02,949
metal sample that was gathered by by Ray

2256
01:42:06,959 --> 01:42:05,409
with witnesses a completely intact

2257
01:42:09,750 --> 01:42:06,969
evidence chain all the way to Goddard

2258
01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:09,760
Space Flight Center in materials lab the

2259
01:42:14,729 --> 01:42:12,249
I think the Socorro case is one of the

2260
01:42:17,339 --> 01:42:14,739
bedrock cases I think of ufology and and

2261
01:42:19,109 --> 01:42:17,349
these very very important details I

2262
01:42:22,020 --> 01:42:19,119
think or or something that the public

2263
01:42:23,870 --> 01:42:22,030
you know needs to be reminded of and the

2264
01:42:27,750 --> 01:42:23,880
fact that there was a lot of runaround

2265
01:42:31,669 --> 01:42:27,760
by official government people the the

2266
01:42:34,799 --> 01:42:31,679
Air Force the FBI and others really did

2267
01:42:36,290 --> 01:42:34,809
you know create some barriers for for

2268
01:42:42,899 --> 01:42:36,300
the truth to come out about the case

2269
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:42,909
would you agree with that yeah I'd agree

2270
01:42:49,890 --> 01:42:47,650
with that also the skeptics tried to put

2271
01:42:53,009 --> 01:42:49,900
the kibosh on a case you know classes

2272
01:42:56,870 --> 01:42:53,019
explanation it was a big hoax by the

2273
01:42:59,250 --> 01:42:56,880
part of the mayor and stuff like that

2274
01:43:02,640 --> 01:42:59,260
but like I said I was not trying to do a

2275
01:43:05,189 --> 01:43:02,650
hundred percent definitive no it's the

2276
01:43:08,270 --> 01:43:05,199
claw of cases confine myself to

2277
01:43:10,529 --> 01:43:08,280
basically what was in the FBI documents

2278
01:43:13,890 --> 01:43:10,539
right well did you know that two days

2279
01:43:17,939 --> 01:43:13,900
after the Socorro case that a plant

2280
01:43:19,919 --> 01:43:17,949
materials analysis is who was an

2281
01:43:23,339 --> 01:43:19,929
excellent radiation biology was rushed

2282
01:43:27,089 --> 01:43:23,349
to the site on Sunday the 26th of 1964

2283
01:43:29,580 --> 01:43:27,099
April 1964 and was accompanied by Air

2284
01:43:30,299 --> 01:43:29,590
Force Major William Conner and Sergeant

2285
01:43:32,489 --> 01:43:30,309
David Moody

2286
01:43:35,219 --> 01:43:32,499
they brought radiation detecting

2287
01:43:40,319 --> 01:43:35,229
equipment that was provided by I think

2288
01:43:42,870 --> 01:43:40,329
FBI agent uh if I believe if memory

2289
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:42,880
serves me correct do you know the

2290
01:43:50,250 --> 01:43:45,010
results did you ever hear the results of

2291
01:43:51,689 --> 01:43:50,260
that that plant analysis yeah yeah

2292
01:43:54,150 --> 01:43:51,699
there's so much about Socorro that

2293
01:43:55,410 --> 01:43:54,160
there's little nuances

2294
01:43:58,380 --> 01:43:55,420
here and there that do include

2295
01:44:00,330 --> 01:43:58,390
involvement of by the CIA or by the FBI

2296
01:44:01,710 --> 01:44:00,340
rather and again I think these are

2297
01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:01,720
important facts that should be brought

2298
01:44:06,420 --> 01:44:05,170
out about the yeah they're these are

2299
01:44:07,770 --> 01:44:06,430
just a few of the facts that should be

2300
01:44:12,030 --> 01:44:07,780
brought out about this case that I think

2301
01:44:13,320 --> 01:44:12,040
are extremely important Bruce yes go

2302
01:44:16,140 --> 01:44:13,330
ahead you want to finish up before we

2303
01:44:18,810 --> 01:44:16,150
break as I said I was confining myself

2304
01:44:21,540 --> 01:44:18,820
what I found in the SBI file plus a

2305
01:44:24,780 --> 01:44:21,550
little bit of added information I wasn't

2306
01:44:27,540 --> 01:44:24,790
trying to do a 100 percent the senator's

2307
01:44:29,670 --> 01:44:27,550
analysis of the car cases however i

2308
01:44:32,100 --> 01:44:29,680
certainly would include all stuff you've

2309
01:44:33,870 --> 01:44:32,110
been talking about all right fair enough

2310
01:44:35,820 --> 01:44:33,880
we'll leave it at that we'll get into

2311
01:44:37,530 --> 01:44:35,830
some other subjects our next segment by

2312
01:44:39,990 --> 01:44:37,540
the way we also have a few questions

2313
01:44:43,230 --> 01:44:40,000
from listeners we're to try to get a few

2314
01:44:44,820 --> 01:44:43,240
of them in there but obviously we have

2315
01:44:46,950 --> 01:44:44,830
so many things to talk about with a book

2316
01:44:48,480 --> 01:44:46,960
like this a book of the scope that we

2317
01:44:50,820 --> 01:44:48,490
can't cover everything I also want to

2318
01:44:53,010 --> 01:44:50,830
touch a little bit about the possible

2319
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:53,020
interest by the Clintons

2320
01:44:56,340 --> 01:44:55,690
in UFOs and a certain report prepared

2321
01:44:57,990 --> 01:44:56,350
for them

2322
01:45:00,090 --> 01:44:58,000
neighbors we don't know was yet a chance

2323
01:45:02,220 --> 01:45:00,100
to pre-announce a guess that far in

2324
01:45:03,900 --> 01:45:02,230
advance but we do have Peter Robbins

2325
01:45:06,450 --> 01:45:03,910
scheduled for the power cast next week

2326
01:45:08,700 --> 01:45:06,460
of course he was one of those

2327
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:08,710
responsible for left at Eastgate the

2328
01:45:12,270 --> 01:45:10,810
book on the Rendlesham case he's done a

2329
01:45:14,790 --> 01:45:12,280
lot of work on abductions

2330
01:45:17,100 --> 01:45:14,800
that's Peter Robbins coming next week on

2331
01:45:18,750 --> 01:45:17,110
the show got more to come with Jeanne

2332
01:45:26,110 --> 01:45:18,760
and Chris we're talking to dr. Bruce

2333
01:45:31,120 --> 01:45:28,660
you're listening to GCN proudly

2334
01:45:33,340 --> 01:45:31,130
sponsored by unseen now calm lockdown

2335
01:45:38,050 --> 01:45:33,350
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2336
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:38,060
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2337
01:45:42,100 --> 01:45:40,010
owe the IRS money you can't pay our tax

2338
01:45:44,140 --> 01:45:42,110
debts crippling you I've defended people

2339
01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:44,150
from the IRS for over 30 years I've

2340
01:45:47,950 --> 01:45:46,130
helped thousands and I can help you too

2341
01:45:49,690 --> 01:45:47,960
I wrote the book on IRS settlement and

2342
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:49,700
I'm telling you there's no such thing as

2343
01:45:55,090 --> 01:45:53,090
a hopeless case call 834 no tax to

2344
01:45:56,950 --> 01:45:55,100
finally get free of IRS debt with the

2345
01:45:58,810 --> 01:45:56,960
IRS as new programs there's never been a

2346
01:46:03,070 --> 01:45:58,820
better time to solve your problem call

2347
01:46:06,790 --> 01:46:03,080
834 no tax that's 834 no tax or my

2348
01:46:08,200 --> 01:46:06,800
website Dan pillow comm hi this is Ted

2349
01:46:10,240 --> 01:46:08,210
Anderson have you ever wondered why

2350
01:46:12,190 --> 01:46:10,250
banks stockbrokers investment advisors

2351
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:12,200
won't talk about gold IRAs they've been

2352
01:46:16,300 --> 01:46:14,570
available since 1986 yet the financial

2353
01:46:17,950 --> 01:46:16,310
industry won't recognize the value of

2354
01:46:20,170 --> 01:46:17,960
gold for your retirement goal does

2355
01:46:21,940 --> 01:46:20,180
outperform paper investments yet no word

2356
01:46:25,750 --> 01:46:21,950
about IRAs if you would like to have

2357
01:46:27,310 --> 01:46:25,760
gold for your retirement call 866 to 237

2358
01:46:30,610 --> 01:46:27,320
don't get left behind by rising

2359
01:46:38,390 --> 01:46:30,620
inflation and low returns call 866 to

2360
01:47:17,300 --> 01:46:59,600
[Music]

2361
01:47:21,350 --> 01:47:19,670
HP extract calm to learn more and to

2362
01:47:23,330 --> 01:47:21,360
read scores of testimonials from

2363
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:23,340
satisfied customers and we've never

2364
01:47:27,320 --> 01:47:25,290
increased our price in over 10 years

2365
01:47:29,180 --> 01:47:27,330
that makes heart and body extract as

2366
01:47:31,340 --> 01:47:29,190
great a value now as it was the first

2367
01:47:33,500 --> 01:47:31,350
day we sold it a healthy heart is a

2368
01:47:39,940 --> 01:47:33,510
happy heart call eight six six two nine

2369
01:47:47,589 --> 01:47:44,160
[Applause]

2370
01:47:51,339 --> 01:47:47,599
welcome back to to the para cast the

2371
01:47:56,160 --> 01:47:51,349
gold standard of paranormal radio and

2372
01:47:59,090 --> 01:47:56,170
now here's Jane Steinberg

2373
01:48:02,490 --> 01:47:59,100
[Music]

2374
01:48:06,810 --> 01:48:02,500
dr. Bruce Maccabees hear about the FBI

2375
01:48:09,270 --> 01:48:06,820
CIA UFO connection and as I said we got

2376
01:48:12,690 --> 01:48:09,280
a lot of ground to cover so I'm kind of

2377
01:48:14,370 --> 01:48:12,700
jumping through topics and years and we

2378
01:48:16,410 --> 01:48:14,380
can't spend you know an hour on each one

2379
01:48:18,810 --> 01:48:16,420
but I'll try your best just looking at

2380
01:48:21,210 --> 01:48:18,820
maybe a summary as we get to our final

2381
01:48:23,850 --> 01:48:21,220
third of the show here as we look over

2382
01:48:27,260 --> 01:48:23,860
the interests of these agencies in the

2383
01:48:30,450 --> 01:48:27,270
subject is there something to disclose

2384
01:48:33,540 --> 01:48:30,460
behind those closed doors of secrecy is

2385
01:48:35,280 --> 01:48:33,550
there a real truth to be had because

2386
01:48:37,740 --> 01:48:35,290
people have been asking year after year

2387
01:48:38,340 --> 01:48:37,750
for disclosure disclosure what's your

2388
01:48:41,340 --> 01:48:38,350
take on it

2389
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:41,350
mostly FBI stuff was completed in the

2390
01:48:47,940 --> 01:48:46,690
late fifties and the chloral case one

2391
01:48:49,530 --> 01:48:47,950
case which apparently was an abduction

2392
01:48:52,620 --> 01:48:49,540
in 1967

2393
01:48:57,150 --> 01:48:52,630
CIA might have something to success but

2394
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:00,540
so there's anybody any agency within the

2395
01:49:05,850 --> 01:49:03,130
government do you think have all this

2396
01:49:08,910 --> 01:49:05,860
secret knowledge about Roswell if it was

2397
01:49:11,940 --> 01:49:08,920
real possible other cases something to

2398
01:49:14,850 --> 01:49:11,950
say hey we're being visited by ET or

2399
01:49:16,950 --> 01:49:14,860
whatever what guilty knowledge the

2400
01:49:18,600 --> 01:49:16,960
government has does an agency have the

2401
01:49:21,510 --> 01:49:18,610
secret do they really know is there

2402
01:49:24,180 --> 01:49:21,520
something that we can get them to

2403
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:24,190
disclose or is that just an excuse

2404
01:49:29,970 --> 01:49:25,810
disclosure based on based on

2405
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:29,980
Vandenberg's action of kicking rejecting

2406
01:49:34,110 --> 01:49:32,530
the estimate I would say to the Air

2407
01:49:37,080 --> 01:49:34,120
Force intelligence has been the point

2408
01:49:40,340 --> 01:49:37,090
squad on this all along if anybody has

2409
01:49:43,230 --> 01:49:40,350
to confess covering up as the Air Force

2410
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:43,240
as I try to do in my book demonstrate

2411
01:49:50,420 --> 01:49:47,850
that they did orchestrate a cover-up by

2412
01:49:52,140 --> 01:49:50,430
executive I'm not allowing

2413
01:49:56,990 --> 01:49:52,150
interplanetary to be a possible

2414
01:50:00,060 --> 01:49:57,000
explanation for any UFO sighting no no I

2415
01:50:03,410 --> 01:50:00,070
also pointed out in the book the fact

2416
01:50:06,180 --> 01:50:03,420
that I did not find clear evidence of a

2417
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:06,190
CIA covering up stuff did not mean that

2418
01:50:12,990 --> 01:50:09,370
there was no secret a secret group

2419
01:50:13,770 --> 01:50:13,000
I'm Alexander I assume there's a signal

2420
01:50:16,230 --> 01:50:13,780
group somewhere

2421
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:16,240
Alexander John Alexander in his book

2422
01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:18,010
argues that he was never able to find

2423
01:50:25,110 --> 01:50:20,650
that secret group and I wasn't able to

2424
01:50:28,380 --> 01:50:25,120
find it either but I decided to kick

2425
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:28,390
greens comment that he had interviewed a

2426
01:50:33,450 --> 01:50:30,570
number of people and some people

2427
01:50:34,830 --> 01:50:33,460
top-level people and he some people know

2428
01:50:35,970 --> 01:50:34,840
something and some didn't but it gave

2429
01:50:38,280 --> 01:50:35,980
him the impression that there was

2430
01:50:40,950 --> 01:50:38,290
something going on somewhere he just

2431
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:40,960
couldn't get to it my guess is it's

2432
01:50:45,810 --> 01:50:42,970
contractor type of operation where

2433
01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:45,820
there's a very thin pipeline not many

2434
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:48,250
people are there a lot of money that's

2435
01:50:51,690 --> 01:50:50,170
flowing to some contractor and I think

2436
01:50:55,290 --> 01:50:51,700
what's going to what whatever is

2437
01:50:58,080 --> 01:50:55,300
available clearly if Roswell is real in

2438
01:51:00,840 --> 01:50:58,090
this crash debris embodies it some major

2439
01:51:02,670 --> 01:51:00,850
work going on somewhere at the very

2440
01:51:05,730 --> 01:51:02,680
least they're controlling access to the

2441
01:51:10,350 --> 01:51:05,740
information Roswell after there have

2442
01:51:12,210 --> 01:51:10,360
been no crashes there's still a cover-up

2443
01:51:15,570 --> 01:51:12,220
of the conclusion that some of these

2444
01:51:18,810 --> 01:51:15,580
things soon sky interplanetary so with

2445
01:51:21,870 --> 01:51:18,820
the point people responsible for this

2446
01:51:23,850 --> 01:51:21,880
secret be largely in private industry

2447
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:23,860
with maybe just a few people in the

2448
01:51:30,030 --> 01:51:27,370
government in on what's going on that's

2449
01:51:33,240 --> 01:51:30,040
what I would say you minimize the number

2450
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:33,250
of people who know the secret to

2451
01:51:39,330 --> 01:51:36,930
minimize the possibility or gets out and

2452
01:51:43,350 --> 01:51:39,340
depending on who it is in the government

2453
01:51:45,170 --> 01:51:43,360
that knows a secret yes probably

2454
01:51:46,980 --> 01:51:45,180
governments probably less trustworthy

2455
01:51:49,530 --> 01:51:46,990
governmental voice maybe less

2456
01:51:54,450 --> 01:51:49,540
trustworthy and contractor employees in

2457
01:51:58,170 --> 01:51:54,460
this regard but the real question comes

2458
01:52:01,950 --> 01:51:58,180
down to why don't they let us know

2459
01:52:04,140 --> 01:52:01,960
what's really going on is there

2460
01:52:05,490 --> 01:52:04,150
something that they know we don't it

2461
01:52:07,410 --> 01:52:05,500
makes it clear that would be detrimental

2462
01:52:09,630 --> 01:52:07,420
to a civilization or something like that

2463
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:09,640
that's right they would have quote

2464
01:52:14,220 --> 01:52:11,970
complete disclosure unquote

2465
01:52:16,350 --> 01:52:14,230
well what about the Office of Naval

2466
01:52:20,070 --> 01:52:16,360
Intelligence you were in the Navy I've

2467
01:52:21,660 --> 01:52:20,080
been hearing whisperings all over the

2468
01:52:25,110 --> 01:52:21,670
place over the years about the

2469
01:52:28,500 --> 01:52:25,120
Almond of the Oh n I in investigating

2470
01:52:31,229 --> 01:52:28,510
UFOs and in having some sort of presence

2471
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:31,239
in this particular subject over the

2472
01:52:34,919 --> 01:52:32,650
years what have you heard about Owen

2473
01:52:38,030 --> 01:52:34,929
eyes knowledge do you think that they're

2474
01:52:40,530 --> 01:52:38,040
involved in any sort of cover-up in the

2475
01:52:42,570 --> 01:52:40,540
Freedom of Information Act requests the

2476
01:52:45,890 --> 01:52:42,580
Office of Naval Intelligence for any

2477
01:52:49,189 --> 01:52:45,900
information on UFOs and they sent me a

2478
01:52:55,350 --> 01:52:49,199
couple of pages of analysis of each

2479
01:52:58,080 --> 01:52:55,360
Hamilton and Utah films silver I talked

2480
01:52:59,459 --> 01:52:58,090
about earlier done by the next

2481
01:53:04,140 --> 01:52:59,469
international photo interpretation

2482
01:53:06,030 --> 01:53:04,150
Center they had copies of the documents

2483
01:53:11,580 --> 01:53:06,040
written by the photo interpretation and

2484
01:53:13,860 --> 01:53:11,590
guys now I sent the Freedom of

2485
01:53:16,590 --> 01:53:13,870
Information Act guy a copy of a document

2486
01:53:20,270 --> 01:53:16,600
I found in the SDI file which was a

2487
01:53:23,550 --> 01:53:20,280
report of very naval aviators in Alaska

2488
01:53:25,260 --> 01:53:23,560
seeing balls of light flying around and

2489
01:53:28,439 --> 01:53:25,270
them chasing the balls of light so on

2490
01:53:29,939 --> 01:53:28,449
this is where they had airplanes up

2491
01:53:33,150 --> 01:53:29,949
there all the time

2492
01:53:37,709 --> 01:53:33,160
in case of Soviet incursions across the

2493
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:37,719
Bering Strait so I not already asked him

2494
01:53:42,510 --> 01:53:39,370
for the documents I said here they are

2495
01:53:45,390 --> 01:53:42,520
can you find these and there was a

2496
01:53:48,860 --> 01:53:45,400
document related to these sightings in

2497
01:53:53,070 --> 01:53:48,870
Alaska and it had commentary on it via

2498
01:53:55,760 --> 01:53:53,080
some operational Navy research group op

2499
01:54:00,270 --> 01:53:55,770
344 whatever the number was so not yet

2500
01:54:01,950 --> 01:54:00,280
and I said that to the Freedom of

2501
01:54:03,750 --> 01:54:01,960
Information Act guy by the name of

2502
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:03,760
course Hollis and he said he searched

2503
01:54:07,919 --> 01:54:05,650
all up and down left right and sideways

2504
01:54:11,220 --> 01:54:07,929
they weren't even able to find the

2505
01:54:14,010 --> 01:54:11,230
document that I had so it only existed

2506
01:54:15,209 --> 01:54:14,020
in the FBI file I guess and they

2507
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:15,219
couldn't find anything else other than

2508
01:54:23,630 --> 01:54:17,770
these photo interpretation and analysis

2509
01:54:28,530 --> 01:54:25,740
of Information Act didn't turn off

2510
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:28,540
anything that the Navy was doing

2511
01:54:33,900 --> 01:54:30,010
really covering their tracks pretty well

2512
01:54:37,790 --> 01:54:33,910
don't stink Oh cover their tracks very

2513
01:54:40,920 --> 01:54:37,800
well yes it was here about things like

2514
01:54:45,150 --> 01:54:40,930
tracking fast-moving underwater objects

2515
01:54:51,140 --> 01:54:45,160
and the tongue of the yolks in the Navy

2516
01:54:53,880 --> 01:54:51,150
cases like that or you might include the

2517
01:54:58,350 --> 01:54:53,890
operation main race cases in September

2518
01:55:00,230 --> 01:54:58,360
of 1952 is Navy so I don't know why they

2519
01:55:02,940 --> 01:55:00,240
didn't have anything related to that

2520
01:55:06,090 --> 01:55:02,950
yeah it's interesting I remember reading

2521
01:55:07,980 --> 01:55:06,100
the incredible statistic stated by Ivan

2522
01:55:11,370 --> 01:55:07,990
T Sanderson in his book invisible

2523
01:55:13,620 --> 01:55:11,380
residents which is about submerged UFOs

2524
01:55:16,260 --> 01:55:13,630
and in UFOs and water and he made the

2525
01:55:18,750 --> 01:55:16,270
outrageous statement that 50% of all UFO

2526
01:55:20,880 --> 01:55:18,760
sightings are somehow connected with

2527
01:55:22,950 --> 01:55:20,890
bodies of water so you would think that

2528
01:55:27,030 --> 01:55:22,960
the Navy if that's true the Navy would

2529
01:55:29,610 --> 01:55:27,040
have a volumous files on on you know

2530
01:55:32,130 --> 01:55:29,620
cases that involve UFOs and water I it's

2531
01:55:36,420 --> 01:55:32,140
it's mind-blowing to me that there's

2532
01:55:43,140 --> 01:55:36,430
almost no fya results coming back from

2533
01:55:45,150 --> 01:55:43,150
from the Navy yeah I know some people go

2534
01:55:49,380 --> 01:55:45,160
in and they enable avatars for

2535
01:55:56,730 --> 01:55:49,390
interesting like he didn't indicate that

2536
01:56:02,880 --> 01:55:56,740
those research group devoted to analysis

2537
01:56:04,170 --> 01:56:02,890
I spoke like a wuss like China like one

2538
01:56:06,750 --> 01:56:04,180
time and we went out for dinner

2539
01:56:08,220 --> 01:56:06,760
afterwards with a bunch of people people

2540
01:56:11,130 --> 01:56:08,230
were throwing exciting things around

2541
01:56:12,540 --> 01:56:11,140
Samet again there was no indication that

2542
01:56:16,350 --> 01:56:12,550
there was somebody who knew a lot more

2543
01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:16,360
than I did I was covering up some sort

2544
01:56:22,860 --> 01:56:20,050
of ongoing research group did anyone

2545
01:56:25,110 --> 01:56:22,870
from the military ever come to you and

2546
01:56:29,430 --> 01:56:25,120
say you know what you're kind of walking

2547
01:56:33,780 --> 01:56:29,440
on eggshells here maybe move away from a

2548
01:56:36,570 --> 01:56:33,790
particular topic or exploration well the

2549
01:56:37,860 --> 01:56:36,580
place that I work told me they don't

2550
01:56:39,330 --> 01:56:37,870
care what you're doing your spare time

2551
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:39,340
as long as you don't get us involved

2552
01:56:42,180 --> 01:56:41,050
that is the name of the laboratory so I

2553
01:56:45,120 --> 01:56:42,190
would say I work for the name

2554
01:56:47,310 --> 01:56:45,130
wouldn't put the name of the laboratory

2555
01:56:50,580 --> 01:56:47,320
out cause it totally my book because

2556
01:56:52,890 --> 01:56:50,590
it's all years old years ago now at the

2557
01:56:55,680 --> 01:56:52,900
time there was one time when I was

2558
01:57:01,250 --> 01:56:55,690
recommended for giving a UFO lecture to

2559
01:57:05,250 --> 01:57:01,260
a group of retired Air Force colonel

2560
01:57:09,780 --> 01:57:05,260
and this lecture was doing there Fort

2561
01:57:14,090 --> 01:57:09,790
Myers in Washington DC and after I given

2562
01:57:18,470 --> 01:57:14,100
this lecture talk about some talk about

2563
01:57:20,850 --> 01:57:18,480
nuclear UFOs over our nuclear oversight

2564
01:57:23,250 --> 01:57:20,860
this lecture was way back in the early

2565
01:57:24,630 --> 01:57:23,260
80s let's find out what happened when

2566
01:57:27,660 --> 01:57:24,640
you gave that lecture in our next

2567
01:57:30,209 --> 01:57:27,670
segment dr. Bruce Maccabee is here with

2568
01:57:38,010 --> 01:57:30,219
Jean and Chris you're in the Barrett

2569
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2590
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2591
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2592
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2593
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2594
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2595
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2596
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2597
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call the Federal Reserve Note forcing us

2598
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2599
01:58:59,759 --> 01:58:57,820
that ensuring inflation in higher taxes

2600
01:59:01,739 --> 01:58:59,769
these questions and more can be answered

2601
01:59:03,719 --> 01:59:01,749
by reading G Edward Griffin book the

2602
01:59:05,399 --> 01:59:03,729
creature from Jekyll Island congressman

2603
01:59:08,129 --> 01:59:05,409
Ron Paul states it's what every American

2604
01:59:10,109 --> 01:59:08,139
needs to know about central bank power a

2605
01:59:13,049 --> 01:59:10,119
gripping adventure into the secret world

2606
01:59:14,609 --> 01:59:13,059
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2607
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2608
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2609
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2623
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2624
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02:00:46,560 --> 02:00:44,439
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02:01:18,600 --> 02:01:16,060
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2648
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2649
02:01:47,189 --> 02:01:43,239
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2650
02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:47,199
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2651
02:01:52,649 --> 02:01:50,650
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2654
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:00,340
para cast calm okay early 80s you're

2655
02:02:08,640 --> 02:02:04,570
giving this lecture to some air force

2656
02:02:10,379 --> 02:02:08,650
people crows or something like that I

2657
02:02:14,390 --> 02:02:10,389
forget the exact name they call

2658
02:02:18,050 --> 02:02:14,400
themselves an umbrella of course and

2659
02:02:23,430 --> 02:02:18,060
after the lecture was over some old guy

2660
02:02:25,109 --> 02:02:23,440
compared to me he says you you can't

2661
02:02:29,399 --> 02:02:25,119
talk about that stuff a voice to that

2662
02:02:31,649 --> 02:02:29,409
effect it was a I don't know if you'd

2663
02:02:34,640 --> 02:02:31,659
know in advance what the lecture was

2664
02:02:36,780 --> 02:02:34,650
going to be about he was essentially

2665
02:02:40,250 --> 02:02:36,790
admonishing me against talking about

2666
02:02:42,330 --> 02:02:40,260
UFOs that's the closest I ever got to

2667
02:02:44,939 --> 02:02:42,340
being totally shut up

2668
02:02:47,520 --> 02:02:44,949
of course I wonder in situations like

2669
02:02:50,939 --> 02:02:47,530
that where if they talk to people like

2670
02:02:52,470 --> 02:02:50,949
you and say something you might report

2671
02:02:55,050 --> 02:02:52,480
to the public what they did and that

2672
02:02:57,270 --> 02:02:55,060
just makes you look more credible well

2673
02:02:59,879 --> 02:02:57,280
yeah I think this guy's comment was

2674
02:03:03,180 --> 02:02:59,889
probably spurred a moment on his part

2675
02:03:07,590 --> 02:03:03,190
and of course I can i I noted the

2676
02:03:10,709 --> 02:03:07,600
comment and basically ignored it but

2677
02:03:14,490 --> 02:03:10,719
right on talking I went and talked to

2678
02:03:15,959 --> 02:03:14,500
another guy who was a horse captain I

2679
02:03:18,510 --> 02:03:15,969
believe who say they've been in charge

2680
02:03:21,390 --> 02:03:18,520
of a missile base in Utah and the same

2681
02:03:23,370 --> 02:03:21,400
thing that happened to his place let's

2682
02:03:25,580 --> 02:03:23,380
just move on our final three segments

2683
02:03:28,530 --> 02:03:25,590
catch-as-catch-can two other subjects

2684
02:03:31,260 --> 02:03:28,540
okay we think about this now because

2685
02:03:34,740 --> 02:03:31,270
there may be another Clinton vying for

2686
02:03:37,590 --> 02:03:34,750
the White House very soon the reported

2687
02:03:41,940 --> 02:03:37,600
interest by the Clintons in UFOs dating

2688
02:03:43,820 --> 02:03:41,950
back to the 1990s some observations

2689
02:03:46,430 --> 02:03:43,830
[Music]

2690
02:03:48,930 --> 02:03:46,440
writing a briefing for the yeah

2691
02:03:50,330 --> 02:03:48,940
President Clinton science science

2692
02:03:52,890 --> 02:03:50,340
advisor right

2693
02:03:57,420 --> 02:03:52,900
1993 a few months after Clinton had

2694
02:04:01,470 --> 02:03:57,430
taken office as a result of loss

2695
02:04:03,690 --> 02:04:01,480
rockefeller and Scott Jones Rockefeller

2696
02:04:06,840 --> 02:04:03,700
I presume relay recognizes the name

2697
02:04:11,280 --> 02:04:06,850
Scott Jones as a activity or

2698
02:04:14,310 --> 02:04:11,290
investigator and using his so-called

2699
02:04:16,080 --> 02:04:14,320
human potential foundation along

2700
02:04:18,980 --> 02:04:16,090
background on mr. Jones for any case

2701
02:04:22,650 --> 02:04:18,990
they were a large briefs Clinton on

2702
02:04:24,240 --> 02:04:22,660
always know about UFOs serve an attempt

2703
02:04:27,960 --> 02:04:24,250
to get some presidential level of

2704
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:27,970
disclosure going and they did they know

2705
02:04:35,430 --> 02:04:32,370
Scott Jones knew Givens personally and

2706
02:04:38,160 --> 02:04:35,440
told Givens they wanna know what time

2707
02:04:41,090 --> 02:04:38,170
with Clinton talk about you all he

2708
02:04:43,800 --> 02:04:41,100
didn't say initially what was and

2709
02:04:45,660 --> 02:04:43,810
Laurance Rockefeller was a big donor so

2710
02:04:49,350 --> 02:04:45,670
of course you get time any County was

2711
02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:49,360
practically so they made a nice little

2712
02:04:55,260 --> 02:04:52,810
giblets if they were big Givens he said

2713
02:04:59,090 --> 02:04:55,270
you you can talk to the president but

2714
02:05:01,790 --> 02:04:59,100
you have to get it past me in fact so

2715
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:01,800
Laurance Rockefeller and Scott Jones

2716
02:05:07,290 --> 02:05:04,570
made animation to talk about UFOs to

2717
02:05:10,710 --> 02:05:07,300
John Gibbons and Givens was petrified

2718
02:05:13,950 --> 02:05:10,720
according to Pandolfi the father losing

2719
02:05:17,870 --> 02:05:13,960
credibility by talking about UFOs so I

2720
02:05:21,060 --> 02:05:17,880
always I was unaware of all this until

2721
02:05:24,960 --> 02:05:21,070
13 taken to order April and I was at

2722
02:05:27,570 --> 02:05:24,970
home doing some work and your phone call

2723
02:05:31,500 --> 02:05:27,580
from Pandolfi changing I want you

2724
02:05:33,020 --> 02:05:31,510
writing for provide a breathing for John

2725
02:05:34,620 --> 02:05:33,030
Givens the president's science advisor

2726
02:05:37,580 --> 02:05:34,630
at which point

2727
02:05:41,610 --> 02:05:37,590
Mike Johnson fell to the floor is that

2728
02:05:43,680 --> 02:05:41,620
obviously an amazing opportunity so

2729
02:05:46,230 --> 02:05:43,690
these are thinking about typical

2730
02:05:49,380 --> 02:05:46,240
presentations take a week or more to get

2731
02:05:50,580 --> 02:05:49,390
develop all of you crafts and a script

2732
02:05:53,730 --> 02:05:50,590
and everything else that goes along with

2733
02:05:57,330 --> 02:05:53,740
it so in Pandolfi says has got to be

2734
02:05:58,560 --> 02:05:57,340
ready by tomorrow and I mean you know

2735
02:06:00,720 --> 02:05:58,570
wondering how to arise if you're going

2736
02:06:04,380 --> 02:06:00,730
to do this and then he says gotta be

2737
02:06:07,890 --> 02:06:04,390
faxed to the Givens office

2738
02:06:10,240 --> 02:06:07,900
about eight o'clock in the morning so I

2739
02:06:14,290 --> 02:06:10,250
sat down and wrote out what I could in

2740
02:06:16,690 --> 02:06:14,300
their amount of time and said here's

2741
02:06:18,190 --> 02:06:16,700
eight o'clock in the morning and I see

2742
02:06:22,720 --> 02:06:18,200
hours later I learned to the meeting

2743
02:06:24,910 --> 02:06:22,730
even held at 7:30 typical governmental

2744
02:06:28,470 --> 02:06:24,920
situation my briefing table had no

2745
02:06:31,090 --> 02:06:28,480
impact on whatever the discussion was a

2746
02:06:32,980 --> 02:06:31,100
horizontal Rajan said hey dr. Goodman

2747
02:06:35,050 --> 02:06:32,990
well why do you think that the whole

2748
02:06:37,810 --> 02:06:35,060
subject didn't get legs and actually

2749
02:06:39,730 --> 02:06:37,820
become a talking point in the

2750
02:06:42,520 --> 02:06:39,740
administration it almost seems like it

2751
02:06:45,040 --> 02:06:42,530
just totally disappears from from the

2752
02:06:47,130 --> 02:06:45,050
scene from that point on well it didn't

2753
02:06:50,740 --> 02:06:47,140
disappear from that point on anybody who

2754
02:06:52,900 --> 02:06:50,750
knows what grant Cameron has a collector

2755
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:52,910
there are you right under the Freedom of

2756
02:06:57,910 --> 02:06:55,850
Information Act all papers generating

2757
02:07:00,160 --> 02:06:57,920
about UFOs at the White House the

2758
02:07:02,050 --> 02:07:00,170
Rockefeller push you might say we're on

2759
02:07:05,440 --> 02:07:02,060
for another year a couple of years I

2760
02:07:08,770 --> 02:07:05,450
think it was 95 or 96 but uh I'm saying

2761
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:08,780
after that initiative it seems to have

2762
02:07:15,100 --> 02:07:10,970
disappeared off the radar uh for the

2763
02:07:18,180 --> 02:07:15,110
most part after 96 there was nothing

2764
02:07:20,860 --> 02:07:18,190
missing you mean supposedly Clinton and

2765
02:07:23,080 --> 02:07:20,870
mrs. Clinton were briefed when they were

2766
02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:23,090
on vacation in Rockefellers ranch and

2767
02:07:28,660 --> 02:07:25,970
Wyoming anything about it

2768
02:07:30,700 --> 02:07:28,670
right that was about the time that I met

2769
02:07:34,900 --> 02:07:30,710
Rockefeller and he did express his

2770
02:07:37,060 --> 02:07:34,910
frustration over the lack of response by

2771
02:07:39,790 --> 02:07:37,070
the administration the the whole issue

2772
02:07:42,190 --> 02:07:39,800
seemed to have kind of spun its wheels

2773
02:07:44,110 --> 02:07:42,200
and and then just you know like I said

2774
02:07:45,610 --> 02:07:44,120
fell off the radar and he was he was

2775
02:07:47,290 --> 02:07:45,620
very frustrated by that because he

2776
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:47,300
thought he had put together you know

2777
02:07:51,850 --> 02:07:49,610
some slam-dunk information that would be

2778
02:07:53,530 --> 02:07:51,860
impossible for the president and his and

2779
02:07:58,270 --> 02:07:53,540
Givens and others in the administration

2780
02:08:00,220 --> 02:07:58,280
to ignore I was we had a little mini

2781
02:08:03,970 --> 02:08:00,230
conference I guess you could say that

2782
02:08:06,970 --> 02:08:03,980
Rockefellers ranch in the fall of 93 and

2783
02:08:10,600 --> 02:08:06,980
I remember other people who gave his

2784
02:08:12,430 --> 02:08:10,610
presentations there on the subject in

2785
02:08:14,960 --> 02:08:12,440
various aspects I talked a lot about the

2786
02:08:16,990 --> 02:08:14,970
New Zealand case for example and

2787
02:08:19,210 --> 02:08:17,000
[Music]

2788
02:08:25,630 --> 02:08:19,220
so far as I could tell there is no no no

2789
02:08:29,500 --> 02:08:25,640
net result of that and I was I was

2790
02:08:32,920 --> 02:08:29,510
advised by my boss that his boss had

2791
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:32,930
wanted me to write some if I send him up

2792
02:08:37,300 --> 02:08:34,610
some CFO documents because they had

2793
02:08:41,110 --> 02:08:37,310
heard they had a request I'm gonna have

2794
02:08:43,270 --> 02:08:41,120
a Navy admiral who lost Rockefeller and

2795
02:08:45,730 --> 02:08:43,280
Scott Jones no I don't know who it was

2796
02:08:47,290 --> 02:08:45,740
but this Navy admiral had called up the

2797
02:08:49,780 --> 02:08:47,300
captain in charge of the laboratory

2798
02:08:52,450 --> 02:08:49,790
where I worked and asked this man could

2799
02:08:54,100 --> 02:08:52,460
be crazy or worse that effect and so

2800
02:08:57,550 --> 02:08:54,110
that question worked his way down

2801
02:09:01,120 --> 02:08:57,560
through the ranks to my boss and my boss

2802
02:09:02,890 --> 02:09:01,130
didn't think I was crazy so and he said

2803
02:09:03,430 --> 02:09:02,900
the captain of the lab wants to read

2804
02:09:07,840 --> 02:09:03,440
some of your work

2805
02:09:10,270 --> 02:09:07,850
so I sent some of my best writing a bill

2806
02:09:11,710 --> 02:09:10,280
changer commander to the captain I never

2807
02:09:13,600 --> 02:09:11,720
heard anything else about it after that

2808
02:09:15,220 --> 02:09:13,610
but I guess they decided since I wasn't

2809
02:09:18,460 --> 02:09:15,230
fired I guess I was they decided I

2810
02:09:24,040 --> 02:09:18,470
wasn't crazy after all so they decided

2811
02:09:25,870 --> 02:09:24,050
you were saying after all okay that

2812
02:09:28,210 --> 02:09:25,880
explains it right now Chris that's why

2813
02:09:30,490 --> 02:09:28,220
sometimes in my life I've worked at a

2814
02:09:33,820 --> 02:09:30,500
job when they decided they'd rather have

2815
02:09:36,460 --> 02:09:33,830
somebody else do that job so maybe they

2816
02:09:38,070 --> 02:09:36,470
determined that I was a little bit too

2817
02:09:40,450 --> 02:09:38,080
crazy for it no that's

2818
02:09:43,840 --> 02:09:40,460
let me tell our listeners we have that

2819
02:09:47,050 --> 02:09:43,850
new service plus dot the para cast comm

2820
02:09:50,890 --> 02:09:47,060
the power cast plus PL us dot the power

2821
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2822
02:09:56,050 --> 02:09:54,170
month $50 a year you get the ad free

2823
02:09:59,590 --> 02:09:56,060
version of the show none of those

2824
02:10:01,090 --> 02:09:59,600
inserted ads higher resolution and extra

2825
02:10:02,860 --> 02:10:01,100
content in fact we're going to introduce

2826
02:10:05,050 --> 02:10:02,870
a new segment called

2827
02:10:06,910 --> 02:10:05,060
after the para cast which will be in a

2828
02:10:09,070 --> 02:10:06,920
regular segment where Chris and I just

2829
02:10:12,220 --> 02:10:09,080
talk shop and sometimes talk about the

2830
02:10:14,560 --> 02:10:12,230
show without interruptions without a

2831
02:10:16,690 --> 02:10:14,570
clock but the clock is moving right now

2832
02:10:19,060 --> 02:10:16,700
we've got dr. Bruce Maccabee with us I'm

2833
02:10:20,510 --> 02:10:19,070
Jean Steinberg with Chris O'Brien you're

2834
02:10:24,859 --> 02:10:20,520
in loop Erica's

2835
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not just an alternative to the

2836
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2841
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2863
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2864
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2865
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2866
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2867
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2870
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2871
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2872
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2882
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2883
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2884
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2885
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2886
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2888
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2889
02:12:39,729 --> 02:12:38,030
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2890
02:12:41,109 --> 02:12:39,739
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2891
02:12:42,910 --> 02:12:41,119
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2892
02:12:44,560 --> 02:12:42,920
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2893
02:12:46,629 --> 02:12:44,570
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2894
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2895
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2896
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2897
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2898
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2899
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02:13:02,950 --> 02:13:00,920
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2901
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2904
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2907
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2915
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2916
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2917
02:13:41,649 --> 02:13:40,820
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2918
02:13:43,810 --> 02:13:41,659
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2919
02:13:45,910 --> 02:13:43,820
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2920
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2924
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2926
02:14:00,640 --> 02:13:58,790
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2927
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2928
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2929
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and ask for details on 126 serving 3

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2941
02:14:33,430 --> 02:14:31,670
freeze dry guy the finest freeze-dried

2942
02:14:33,890 --> 02:14:33,440
and dehydrated foods available for long

2943
02:14:46,760 --> 02:14:33,900
term

2944
02:14:49,970 --> 02:14:46,770
storage period this is actually you're

2945
02:15:01,399 --> 02:14:49,980
listening to the podcast the gold

2946
02:15:06,089 --> 02:15:03,660
this is the power cast with gene and

2947
02:15:08,520 --> 02:15:06,099
Chris we're gonna go on with lots and

2948
02:15:11,790 --> 02:15:08,530
lots of discussions on remaining two

2949
02:15:14,129 --> 02:15:11,800
segments dr. Bruce Maccabee since we

2950
02:15:16,319 --> 02:15:14,139
brought in the issue of President

2951
02:15:18,419 --> 02:15:16,329
Clinton do you think any of the

2952
02:15:20,910 --> 02:15:18,429
presidents have any real knowledge of

2953
02:15:24,959 --> 02:15:20,920
what's going on about this subject I'll

2954
02:15:26,669 --> 02:15:24,969
leave that standing well part of the

2955
02:15:29,219 --> 02:15:26,679
intelligence community community may

2956
02:15:30,660 --> 02:15:29,229
know typically you know why would you

2957
02:15:32,879 --> 02:15:30,670
tell a president he's going to be good

2958
02:15:34,439 --> 02:15:32,889
for no more than eight years the only

2959
02:15:37,919 --> 02:15:34,449
four years and he's primarily interested

2960
02:15:40,049 --> 02:15:37,929
in the political situations one doesn't

2961
02:15:44,370 --> 02:15:40,059
know how a harper president might react

2962
02:15:46,140 --> 02:15:44,380
learning that so i take a chance i tell

2963
02:15:49,140 --> 02:15:46,150
all the way the intelligence community

2964
02:15:51,209 --> 02:15:49,150
tell any president the those are real

2965
02:15:53,790 --> 02:15:51,219
and we've got crashed discs and all that

2966
02:15:55,770 --> 02:15:53,800
sort of stuff because it introduced a

2967
02:15:57,750 --> 02:15:55,780
military into civilization if there's

2968
02:16:01,049 --> 02:15:57,760
one thing that civilization can't stand

2969
02:16:04,739 --> 02:16:01,059
its uncertainty what about in the early

2970
02:16:07,259 --> 02:16:04,749
years when ufos were first becoming

2971
02:16:09,179 --> 02:16:07,269
ubiquitous what about President Truman

2972
02:16:17,160 --> 02:16:09,189
Eisenhower do you think maybe they knew

2973
02:16:20,069 --> 02:16:17,170
more than their successors intelligence

2974
02:16:25,709 --> 02:16:20,079
communities and and as they were

2975
02:16:28,020 --> 02:16:25,719
president I suspected the means or major

2976
02:16:32,639 --> 02:16:28,030
information went quickly underground but

2977
02:16:34,769 --> 02:16:32,649
or enough people or well first hand had

2978
02:16:36,030 --> 02:16:34,779
first-hand awareness of the subject

2979
02:16:39,750 --> 02:16:36,040
either by sightings are annoying people

2980
02:16:43,219 --> 02:16:39,760
had sightings enough for top-level

2981
02:16:48,150 --> 02:16:43,229
people who knew that didn't change

2982
02:16:52,229 --> 02:16:48,160
wouldn't change much to tell tell them

2983
02:16:53,639 --> 02:16:52,239
the truth they're already coping with

2984
02:16:57,509 --> 02:16:53,649
whatever the implications of the truth

2985
02:17:00,540 --> 02:16:57,519
were let me just ask you a quick

2986
02:17:02,669 --> 02:17:00,550
question about that fell and that is in

2987
02:17:04,889 --> 02:17:02,679
the event something happened that forced

2988
02:17:06,540 --> 02:17:04,899
the issue a mast landing or something

2989
02:17:08,280 --> 02:17:06,550
wouldn't there have to be a contingency

2990
02:17:10,679 --> 02:17:08,290
plan to sit the president down as

2991
02:17:12,379 --> 02:17:10,689
national security people and say oh by

2992
02:17:14,310 --> 02:17:12,389
the way we didn't tell you this before

2993
02:17:17,610 --> 02:17:14,320
yeah well

2994
02:17:21,180 --> 02:17:17,620
my the the ceiling may well occurred

2995
02:17:25,020 --> 02:17:21,190
during the 1952 Summer fifty-two which I

2996
02:17:28,620 --> 02:17:25,030
call the year the UFO when there were

2997
02:17:33,590 --> 02:17:28,630
sightings coming in on July 26th order

2998
02:17:38,250 --> 02:17:33,600
it was or like 50 sightings in one day

2999
02:17:41,041 --> 02:17:38,260
from all over the place and at that

3000
02:17:46,200 --> 02:17:41,051
point they may well father an invasion

3001
02:17:47,250 --> 02:17:46,210
was imminent and they could told Truman

3002
02:17:51,300 --> 02:17:47,260
what was going on

3003
02:17:54,600 --> 02:17:51,310
but well I don't know it's a question

3004
02:17:57,330 --> 02:17:54,610
you know I speculate Iran well we do

3005
02:17:59,760 --> 02:17:57,340
have a number of questions at forum dr.

3006
02:18:01,620 --> 02:17:59,770
Perik asked calm in our question thread

3007
02:18:03,870 --> 02:18:01,630
we're a listeners Bruce can ask

3008
02:18:06,420 --> 02:18:03,880
questions of our guests and we do have

3009
02:18:09,450 --> 02:18:06,430
some in here this one comes from Randall

3010
02:18:13,020 --> 02:18:09,460
who calls himself ufology he's one of

3011
02:18:15,990 --> 02:18:13,030
our most prolific posters he's well over

3012
02:18:17,910 --> 02:18:16,000
5,000 posts at the forum and he's

3013
02:18:19,620 --> 02:18:17,920
wondering in your 1990 book the Gulf

3014
02:18:22,740 --> 02:18:19,630
Breeze sightings by ed and Frances

3015
02:18:24,330 --> 02:18:22,750
Walters you wrote in my opinion this is

3016
02:18:26,160 --> 02:18:24,340
not a hoax after an extensive

3017
02:18:27,541 --> 02:18:26,170
investigation I've concluded that

3018
02:18:29,670 --> 02:18:27,551
everything described here actually

3019
02:18:32,460 --> 02:18:29,680
happened more or less as they have

3020
02:18:37,070 --> 02:18:32,470
described it today are you still of the

3021
02:18:46,200 --> 02:18:43,580
okay that was a short punchy answer I

3022
02:18:49,020 --> 02:18:46,210
believe certainly aware of all the

3023
02:18:53,720 --> 02:18:49,030
criticisms of stuff related to double

3024
02:18:57,870 --> 02:18:56,850
accused the accusations against ed

3025
02:19:00,900 --> 02:18:57,880
Walters and so on

3026
02:19:04,650 --> 02:19:00,910
and I tried to outline my reasons for

3027
02:19:08,340 --> 02:19:04,660
believing that things happened that he

3028
02:19:10,140 --> 02:19:08,350
could not have hoaxes and so anybody who

3029
02:19:11,610 --> 02:19:10,150
asked that question I presume has the

3030
02:19:16,950 --> 02:19:11,620
book in there therefore can read my

3031
02:19:20,700 --> 02:19:16,960
chapter there's other stuff on the on my

3032
02:19:24,030 --> 02:19:20,710
web page one case in particular January

3033
02:19:27,459 --> 02:19:24,040
8 1990 which was a multiple witness case

3034
02:19:31,629 --> 02:19:27,469
with photography involved

3035
02:19:38,739 --> 02:19:31,639
other people to which I find their place

3036
02:19:40,989 --> 02:19:38,749
fans apart from anybody who wants to

3037
02:19:45,219 --> 02:19:40,999
read that on my website

3038
02:19:47,469 --> 02:19:45,229
typically room at eight K calm hey so

3039
02:19:49,660 --> 02:19:47,479
you're saying because of all the other

3040
02:19:52,660 --> 02:19:49,670
sightings that were taking place during

3041
02:19:54,189 --> 02:19:52,670
that same general time period that is an

3042
02:19:55,989 --> 02:19:54,199
indication to you that there was

3043
02:19:58,689 --> 02:19:55,999
activity down there and it couldn't all

3044
02:20:12,849 --> 02:19:58,699
have been generated by a person like ed

3045
02:20:15,580 --> 02:20:12,859
Walters hoaxing photographs Edwin Edwin

3046
02:20:17,290 --> 02:20:15,590
hoaxing are no pictures and at the same

3047
02:20:19,059 --> 02:20:17,300
time except that any one of the

3048
02:20:22,830 --> 02:20:19,069
witnesses will claim this how the same

3049
02:20:26,109 --> 02:20:22,840
thing was Altimas was telling the truth

3050
02:20:28,929 --> 02:20:26,119
in other words that was a guilty by

3051
02:20:29,739 --> 02:20:28,939
photography to use his phrase he hadn't

3052
02:20:33,479 --> 02:20:29,749
taken any photos

3053
02:20:38,019 --> 02:20:33,489
it would have been like anybody else's a

3054
02:20:39,580 --> 02:20:38,029
sightings I guess right well here's

3055
02:20:41,559 --> 02:20:39,590
here's another question that we have

3056
02:20:43,630 --> 02:20:41,569
this one's from Blowfish who's been

3057
02:20:47,410 --> 02:20:43,640
opposed to have formed out the parrot

3058
02:20:50,889 --> 02:20:47,420
cast Cobb since January of 2010 and he's

3059
02:20:52,540 --> 02:20:50,899
he's speculating in kind of riffing here

3060
02:20:55,120 --> 02:20:52,550
a little bit and he's wondering if you

3061
02:20:57,849 --> 02:20:55,130
think there are two types of space

3062
02:21:00,399 --> 02:20:57,859
programs controlled by China Russia and

3063
02:21:02,290 --> 02:21:00,409
the USA one that's a public relations

3064
02:21:06,550 --> 02:21:02,300
program and another one that secret and

3065
02:21:08,800 --> 02:21:06,560
military run I'm sure there are secret

3066
02:21:13,059 --> 02:21:08,810
military programs where they've gone

3067
02:21:15,760 --> 02:21:13,069
much farther than the known programs

3068
02:21:19,660 --> 02:21:15,770
this hard decision I could I can only

3069
02:21:24,819 --> 02:21:19,670
speculate but I remember back in 1980s

3070
02:21:28,769 --> 02:21:24,829
going to a customized here and they're

3071
02:21:35,380 --> 02:21:28,779
going through a week-long seminar for

3072
02:21:36,939 --> 02:21:35,390
letting young program managers which is

3073
02:21:39,429 --> 02:21:36,949
all sorts of things are discussed and

3074
02:21:41,320 --> 02:21:39,439
some references are made or they called

3075
02:21:43,719 --> 02:21:41,330
the black shuttle

3076
02:21:48,900 --> 02:21:43,729
this is one shuttle for just beginning

3077
02:21:54,820 --> 02:21:48,910
and the black shuttle presumably was a

3078
02:21:57,760 --> 02:21:54,830
airforce project that was a secret I

3079
02:22:00,570 --> 02:21:57,770
never I didn't pursue that at the time

3080
02:22:06,010 --> 02:22:00,580
so I don't know how far these are

3081
02:22:09,880 --> 02:22:06,020
top-secret military spacecraft could

3082
02:22:10,780 --> 02:22:09,890
have gone but at that point as I said

3083
02:22:12,700 --> 02:22:10,790
they were talking about the black

3084
02:22:16,059 --> 02:22:12,710
shuttle really starting up some time

3085
02:22:18,010 --> 02:22:16,069
which would have been in the 80s well

3086
02:22:22,599 --> 02:22:18,020
Bruce what do you think of this movement

3087
02:22:27,190 --> 02:22:22,609
within base program to privatize and go

3088
02:22:31,420 --> 02:22:27,200
with with corporate entities like SpaceX

3089
02:22:34,230 --> 02:22:31,430
Elon Musk orbital technologies you know

3090
02:22:39,030 --> 02:22:34,240
Robert Bigelow in his Bigelow Aerospace

3091
02:22:43,750 --> 02:22:39,040
dooth did this move into the private

3092
02:22:46,809 --> 02:22:43,760
sector is going to help divulge

3093
02:22:49,570 --> 02:22:46,819
information about UFOs possibly

3094
02:22:50,679 --> 02:22:49,580
artifacts on the moon for instance or do

3095
02:22:56,050 --> 02:22:50,689
you think that this is going to further

3096
02:22:57,340 --> 02:22:56,060
hinder any sort of disclosure well I

3097
02:22:58,540 --> 02:22:57,350
don't think it'll have an impact on

3098
02:23:00,130 --> 02:22:58,550
disclose unless one of these

3099
02:23:03,790 --> 02:23:00,140
organizations runs into something

3100
02:23:07,740 --> 02:23:03,800
absolutely convincing they'd like it if

3101
02:23:11,679 --> 02:23:07,750
they discover a an obelisk on the moon

3102
02:23:15,460 --> 02:23:11,689
or something like that if somebody

3103
02:23:20,080 --> 02:23:15,470
crashes into an unknown alien spacecraft

3104
02:23:21,429 --> 02:23:20,090
and they get pieces of it I think it

3105
02:23:24,580 --> 02:23:21,439
would take something pretty convincing

3106
02:23:26,190 --> 02:23:24,590
to have an impact on one of these

3107
02:23:30,790 --> 02:23:26,200
programs that you're just talking about

3108
02:23:33,670 --> 02:23:30,800
but the real question is if they ran

3109
02:23:36,190 --> 02:23:33,680
into something where is their fine print

3110
02:23:37,750 --> 02:23:36,200
in the contract it says if you clintus

3111
02:23:39,969 --> 02:23:37,760
run into something that's clearly alien

3112
02:23:41,921 --> 02:23:39,979
you have to give it up to such and such

3113
02:23:46,461 --> 02:23:41,931
a government

3114
02:23:49,341 --> 02:23:46,471
organization well that makes sense for

3115
02:23:51,741 --> 02:23:49,351
the US but what about China what about

3116
02:23:54,561 --> 02:23:51,751
India do you think if they come up with

3117
02:23:56,931 --> 02:23:54,571
some sort of amazing slam-dunk evidence

3118
02:23:58,521 --> 02:23:56,941
of artifacts on the moon let's say as an

3119
02:23:59,871 --> 02:23:58,531
example do you think that they would

3120
02:24:01,701 --> 02:23:59,881
release that information just to

3121
02:24:03,111 --> 02:24:01,711
embarrass the United States or to put

3122
02:24:07,521 --> 02:24:03,121
pressure on the United States possibly

3123
02:24:09,621 --> 02:24:07,531
to disclose more openly uh their the

3124
02:24:11,241 --> 02:24:09,631
extent of their knowledge let's have the

3125
02:24:13,851 --> 02:24:11,251
answer our next segment and final

3126
02:24:17,800 --> 02:24:13,861
segment with dr. Bruce Maccabee and Jean

3127
02:24:24,849 --> 02:24:17,810
and Kris you're in the podcast

3128
02:24:30,380 --> 02:24:28,190
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3134
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3135
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3136
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officer is haunted by intense dreams

3137
02:24:51,980 --> 02:24:49,740
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

3138
02:24:54,650 --> 02:24:51,990
help after a terrible battle in outer

3139
02:24:57,019 --> 02:24:54,660
space but the dreams turn out to be true

3140
02:24:59,510 --> 02:24:57,029
and thrust him into a telepathic love

3141
02:25:02,120 --> 02:24:59,520
affair with a woman whose faraway planet

3142
02:25:05,120 --> 02:25:02,130
is intent on destroying the earth and

3143
02:25:07,820 --> 02:25:05,130
now the gripping tale continues in the

3144
02:25:10,550 --> 02:25:07,830
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3145
02:25:12,440 --> 02:25:10,560
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3146
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spanning adventure that pits our hapless

3147
02:25:17,269 --> 02:25:15,180
heroes against powerful fanatical

3148
02:25:20,179 --> 02:25:17,279
enemies that threaten the lives of

3149
02:25:22,670 --> 02:25:20,189
freedom loving beings everywhere attack

3150
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3151
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3152
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3153
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3154
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3155
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being safe and secure means the doors

3156
02:25:43,400 --> 02:25:41,700
lock bills are paid you've got a job

3157
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that keeps the lights on and a home to

3158
02:25:48,761 --> 02:25:45,390
call your own but what happens when

3159
02:25:50,930 --> 02:25:48,771
Mother Nature throws a curve ball

3160
02:25:53,091 --> 02:25:50,940
are you prepared to live without

3161
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electricity or passable roads for weeks

3162
02:25:57,051 --> 02:25:53,820
at a time

3163
02:25:59,001 --> 02:25:57,061
do you even have a plan B if you do are

3164
02:26:01,100 --> 02:25:59,011
you willing to bet your life on it

3165
02:26:03,171 --> 02:26:01,110
children left with no home - no one's

3166
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3167
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3168
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3178
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3180
02:26:37,940 --> 02:26:32,670
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3181
02:26:39,770 --> 02:26:37,950
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3182
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about your cable bill going up and up

3183
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3186
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3199
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3200
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3201
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3202
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3206
02:27:46,551 --> 02:27:43,230
you or simply I'm thinking of you

3207
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3208
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3209
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3210
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3211
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3212
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3213
02:28:02,810 --> 02:28:00,780
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3214
02:28:06,230 --> 02:28:02,820
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3215
02:28:08,720 --> 02:28:06,240
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3216
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plus all bouquets from pro flowers are

3217
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3218
02:28:15,921 --> 02:28:14,101
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3219
02:28:18,440 --> 02:28:15,931
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3220
02:28:20,990 --> 02:28:18,450
lasting enjoyment to get this incredible

3221
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savings and send someone 100 gorgeous

3222
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blooms with a free vase for $19.99 go to

3223
02:28:29,270 --> 02:28:27,271
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3224
02:28:32,841 --> 02:28:29,280
in the top right corner and enter code

3225
02:28:38,710 --> 02:28:32,851
plow that's proflowers.com click the mic

3226
02:29:00,440 --> 02:28:48,250
[Music]

3227
02:29:04,100 --> 02:29:00,450
remember plus dot the power cast com+

3228
02:29:06,950 --> 02:29:04,110
dr. Peric ascom sign up for our premium

3229
02:29:09,350 --> 02:29:06,960
plus package five dollars a month fifty

3230
02:29:12,261 --> 02:29:09,360
dollars a year and we'll be adding some

3231
02:29:16,341 --> 02:29:12,271
new special features okay

3232
02:29:18,801 --> 02:29:16,351
new special features including after the

3233
02:29:20,570 --> 02:29:18,811
power cast Chris you want to go through

3234
02:29:23,360 --> 02:29:20,580
that question one more time for dr.

3235
02:29:25,370 --> 02:29:23,370
McAfee in our final segment sure because

3236
02:29:27,310 --> 02:29:25,380
we're seeing other countries like India

3237
02:29:30,830 --> 02:29:27,320
and China starting to go to the moon

3238
02:29:33,140 --> 02:29:30,840
have a more robust presence in space do

3239
02:29:36,290 --> 02:29:33,150
you think if these countries discover

3240
02:29:38,660 --> 02:29:36,300
some sort of slam-dunk information

3241
02:29:40,190 --> 02:29:38,670
that's you know highly sensational let's

3242
02:29:42,080 --> 02:29:40,200
say artifacts on the moon would be the

3243
02:29:45,290 --> 02:29:42,090
obvious example do you think that they

3244
02:29:46,610 --> 02:29:45,300
would disclose this to embarrass the

3245
02:29:48,320 --> 02:29:46,620
United States possibly or to put

3246
02:29:51,011 --> 02:29:48,330
pressure on the United States to be more

3247
02:29:54,280 --> 02:29:51,021
forthcoming about our knowledge of

3248
02:29:57,470 --> 02:29:54,290
what's really going on with UFOs and

3249
02:29:59,000 --> 02:29:57,480
supposed visitation first part of the

3250
02:30:01,910 --> 02:29:59,010
question has to be would they release

3251
02:30:04,910 --> 02:30:01,920
the information anyway whether to

3252
02:30:07,640 --> 02:30:04,920
America United States or not there may

3253
02:30:10,761 --> 02:30:07,650
be some secret agreement that if they

3254
02:30:12,650 --> 02:30:10,771
ran to clear clearly alien technology

3255
02:30:14,470 --> 02:30:12,660
somehow or other they're going to keep

3256
02:30:18,740 --> 02:30:14,480
quiet about it

3257
02:30:21,530 --> 02:30:18,750
yeah they might release it I don't know

3258
02:30:22,700 --> 02:30:21,540
as I say or vide we can embarrass the

3259
02:30:25,250 --> 02:30:22,710
United States by releasing this

3260
02:30:28,011 --> 02:30:25,260
information if there's something about

3261
02:30:30,381 --> 02:30:28,021
this information that has convinced the

3262
02:30:33,110 --> 02:30:30,391
US government that it shouldn't be

3263
02:30:34,671 --> 02:30:33,120
released that same information probably

3264
02:30:37,131 --> 02:30:34,681
would convince the Chinese to the India

3265
02:30:39,320 --> 02:30:37,141
sure but what about the Iranians what

3266
02:30:43,190 --> 02:30:39,330
about these rogue nations do you think

3267
02:30:45,410 --> 02:30:43,200
people have the same concerns what about

3268
02:30:47,591 --> 02:30:45,420
North Korea depends on the information

3269
02:30:50,000 --> 02:30:47,601
that's being withheld anyone actually

3270
02:30:52,940 --> 02:30:50,010
yeah they don't have space programs gene

3271
02:30:55,910 --> 02:30:52,950
I mean but that doesn't mean they don't

3272
02:30:58,551 --> 02:30:55,920
have information maybe it doesn't mean

3273
02:31:01,910 --> 02:30:58,561
that a UFO can crash in North Korea or

3274
02:31:03,580 --> 02:31:01,920
an Iran or in any of these other

3275
02:31:07,060 --> 02:31:03,590
countries you know they

3276
02:31:09,429 --> 02:31:07,070
have UFO sightings - sure UFO crash in

3277
02:31:12,010 --> 02:31:09,439
Iran would they run and tell other the

3278
02:31:15,790 --> 02:31:12,020
United States that we got one or they

3279
02:31:17,590 --> 02:31:15,800
cover it up I don't know they sure

3280
02:31:19,330 --> 02:31:17,600
didn't cover up not somehow managing to

3281
02:31:22,270 --> 02:31:19,340
hijack one of our drones there a few

3282
02:31:25,420 --> 02:31:22,280
years back but that's not that's not

3283
02:31:28,120 --> 02:31:25,430
impossible technology or impossible

3284
02:31:30,429 --> 02:31:28,130
saving they're starting off with a point

3285
02:31:33,610 --> 02:31:30,439
of view that UFOs don't exist therefore

3286
02:31:36,010 --> 02:31:33,620
they you can't get a crashed one if the

3287
02:31:36,610 --> 02:31:36,020
crash one comes along then this changes

3288
02:31:39,760 --> 02:31:36,620
the whole game

3289
02:31:43,060 --> 02:31:39,770
and they may follow along the same line

3290
02:31:46,420 --> 02:31:43,070
of thought as the air for US Air Force

3291
02:31:50,260 --> 02:31:46,430
turns back in 1947 the bottom line would

3292
02:31:53,080 --> 02:31:50,270
be is it I'm Chinese sir I'm Iranian or

3293
02:31:55,980 --> 02:31:53,090
I'm Afghanistan you know South Africa or

3294
02:31:59,200 --> 02:31:55,990
wherever is it going to do me any good

3295
02:32:00,550 --> 02:31:59,210
to release this information and the

3296
02:32:03,490 --> 02:32:00,560
answer to that of course is going to

3297
02:32:06,190 --> 02:32:03,500
depend upon the culture background all

3298
02:32:08,110 --> 02:32:06,200
sorts of stuff if they conclude that

3299
02:32:10,330 --> 02:32:08,120
it's not going to be a good things they

3300
02:32:15,429 --> 02:32:10,340
probably won't right in other words

3301
02:32:16,380 --> 02:32:15,439
there's got to be a real plus follow the

3302
02:32:19,120 --> 02:32:16,390
money

3303
02:32:21,969 --> 02:32:19,130
exactly what Blowfish has another

3304
02:32:24,910 --> 02:32:21,979
question here in you know you bring you

3305
02:32:28,450 --> 02:32:24,920
brought up several very important cases

3306
02:32:30,820 --> 02:32:28,460
that you discuss at some length in your

3307
02:32:32,770 --> 02:32:30,830
book he wants to know what is your best

3308
02:32:35,170 --> 02:32:32,780
UFO case that you've investigated during

3309
02:32:37,480 --> 02:32:35,180
your research and he also mentions that

3310
02:32:38,830 --> 02:32:37,490
he has bought your book and he really

3311
02:32:45,670 --> 02:32:38,840
enjoys that he says it's a very good

3312
02:32:47,110 --> 02:32:45,680
read so save a case the most important

3313
02:32:49,480 --> 02:32:47,120
one I've investigated as you know

3314
02:32:53,410 --> 02:32:49,490
Zealand sightings before the amount of

3315
02:32:55,450 --> 02:32:53,420
data left over certainly the good will

3316
02:32:57,040 --> 02:32:55,460
for those 19th this year very

3317
02:32:59,950 --> 02:32:57,050
interesting I got a lot of stuff on my

3318
02:33:01,360 --> 02:32:59,960
website about that those are this is an

3319
02:33:02,650 --> 02:33:01,370
interesting photo case because it's

3320
02:33:05,320 --> 02:33:02,660
either a real thing or hoax there's no

3321
02:33:07,349 --> 02:33:05,330
halfway point and but you only have two

3322
02:33:10,420 --> 02:33:07,359
people making a claim and a photograph

3323
02:33:13,240 --> 02:33:10,430
is a New Zealand case you've got

3324
02:33:14,020 --> 02:33:13,250
multiple witnesses - flying on this

3325
02:33:15,910 --> 02:33:14,030
airplane

3326
02:33:17,440 --> 02:33:15,920
Marvel witnesses - appearances and

3327
02:33:19,720 --> 02:33:17,450
disappearances of what

3328
02:33:21,460 --> 02:33:19,730
lights around the aircraft you've got a

3329
02:33:23,801 --> 02:33:21,470
tape recording made on the aircraft by a

3330
02:33:27,070 --> 02:33:23,811
reporter you got a 16-millimeter color

3331
02:33:30,250 --> 02:33:27,080
movie made on the airplane by a movie

3332
02:33:36,460 --> 02:33:30,260
car cameraman you got the pilot and the

3333
02:33:38,500 --> 02:33:36,470
copilot and a sound recording person you

3334
02:33:42,100 --> 02:33:38,510
have radar data as well and you also

3335
02:33:44,710 --> 02:33:42,110
have the ground radar and you have some

3336
02:33:47,740 --> 02:33:44,720
instances one instance in particular

3337
02:33:49,660 --> 02:33:47,750
ground radar where the plane is flying

3338
02:33:53,530 --> 02:33:49,670
especially southward away from the radar

3339
02:33:55,540 --> 02:33:53,540
and the radars picking up a target

3340
02:33:56,770 --> 02:33:55,550
behind the aircraft then it picks up a

3341
02:33:58,960 --> 02:33:56,780
target on the right-hand side of the

3342
02:34:00,520 --> 02:33:58,970
aircraft then suddenly the aircraft tire

3343
02:34:04,570 --> 02:34:00,530
gets twice as large as it ought to be

3344
02:34:06,671 --> 02:34:04,580
now I've written a big paper on radar

3345
02:34:08,320 --> 02:34:06,681
analysis and how this is essentially an

3346
02:34:11,530 --> 02:34:08,330
impossibility unless you actually have

3347
02:34:15,960 --> 02:34:11,540
some radar reflective object close to

3348
02:34:19,120 --> 02:34:15,970
the aircraft - so like stretch out the

3349
02:34:21,790 --> 02:34:19,130
the little arc that speed on the radar

3350
02:34:25,120 --> 02:34:21,800
screen so that's that's an impossible

3351
02:34:27,730 --> 02:34:25,130
radar case something was there and the

3352
02:34:29,650 --> 02:34:27,740
witnesses looked and saw something with

3353
02:34:32,680 --> 02:34:29,660
a light on flashing as it was traveling

3354
02:34:36,761 --> 02:34:32,690
along the main part of that sighting as

3355
02:34:38,580 --> 02:34:36,771
far as a publicity is concerned as they

3356
02:34:43,120 --> 02:34:38,590
were flying from christchurch northward

3357
02:34:45,730 --> 02:34:43,130
at about 2:30 in the morning they saw

3358
02:34:49,091 --> 02:34:45,740
very bright like films a lot of film of

3359
02:34:51,150 --> 02:34:49,101
it and I use one frame of that film to

3360
02:34:53,830 --> 02:34:51,160
calculate how bright this thing was I

3361
02:34:55,330 --> 02:34:53,840
make an estimate of how I was greatness

3362
02:34:58,030 --> 02:34:55,340
and I wrote a paper that appeared in the

3363
02:35:00,341 --> 02:34:58,040
flight optics a little paper that

3364
02:35:02,620 --> 02:35:00,351
appeared in applied optics and the

3365
02:35:04,930 --> 02:35:02,630
summer of 1979 and then re budding paper

3366
02:35:08,080 --> 02:35:04,940
appeared in December 1979 saying it was

3367
02:35:10,210 --> 02:35:08,090
a squid boat and then I rebutted the

3368
02:35:12,570 --> 02:35:10,220
rebuttal and yet another paper said I

3369
02:35:16,450 --> 02:35:12,580
couldn't miss good boat because it moved

3370
02:35:19,480 --> 02:35:16,460
anyway that has a very complicated

3371
02:35:22,930 --> 02:35:19,490
series of events Bruce really haven't

3372
02:35:24,520 --> 02:35:22,940
got enough time to really cover all the

3373
02:35:26,890 --> 02:35:24,530
ramifications want to ask you just one

3374
02:35:28,660 --> 02:35:26,900
final question before we end the show

3375
02:35:30,040 --> 02:35:28,670
and it's going to require probably a lot

3376
02:35:31,750 --> 02:35:30,050
of discussion but we don't

3377
02:35:34,990 --> 02:35:31,760
more than a couple of minutes and that

3378
02:35:38,469 --> 02:35:35,000
is we look over the years at the obvious

3379
02:35:41,260 --> 02:35:38,479
evidence that eyewitness testimony is

3380
02:35:44,230 --> 02:35:41,270
extremely unreliable of course a lot of

3381
02:35:45,790 --> 02:35:44,240
UFO cases don't have radar visual

3382
02:35:48,429 --> 02:35:45,800
sightings or photographs or anything

3383
02:35:51,429 --> 02:35:48,439
like that it's all the eyewitness so

3384
02:35:54,790 --> 02:35:51,439
when you have situations like this how

3385
02:35:56,770 --> 02:35:54,800
do you know how accurate it take those

3386
02:35:58,840 --> 02:35:56,780
eyewitness perceptions especially when

3387
02:36:03,610 --> 02:35:58,850
we have an unexpected event that might

3388
02:36:06,700 --> 02:36:03,620
be frightening to some people well it

3389
02:36:09,610 --> 02:36:06,710
depends on the type of event you have to

3390
02:36:14,860 --> 02:36:09,620
evaluate each saying oh so I make a

3391
02:36:16,870 --> 02:36:14,870
maybe a grand scale comment that well

3392
02:36:18,730 --> 02:36:16,880
I'm never going to talk about single

3393
02:36:20,620 --> 02:36:18,740
witness cases I'm never gonna talk about

3394
02:36:23,559 --> 02:36:20,630
cases that have only 2 2 or less

3395
02:36:25,780 --> 02:36:23,569
witnesses and you still have a bunch of

3396
02:36:27,429 --> 02:36:25,790
cases left over if you say you're gonna

3397
02:36:29,590 --> 02:36:27,439
talk about only cases that have hard

3398
02:36:31,599 --> 02:36:29,600
evidence or landing traces a skater's

3399
02:36:34,120 --> 02:36:31,609
and stuff you've still got a bunch left

3400
02:36:37,540 --> 02:36:34,130
over so I think you have to evaluate

3401
02:36:40,179 --> 02:36:37,550
each case on its merits and certainly

3402
02:36:41,469 --> 02:36:40,189
most of them are single witness cases

3403
02:36:44,590 --> 02:36:41,479
but that doesn't mean that the single

3404
02:36:47,650 --> 02:36:44,600
witness case it has to be bad I always

3405
02:36:49,990 --> 02:36:47,660
like to go back and discuss the the

3406
02:36:52,870 --> 02:36:50,000
first so-called first case Kenneth

3407
02:36:55,360 --> 02:36:52,880
Arnold as a single witness case mr.

3408
02:36:58,450 --> 02:36:55,370
Arnold made measurements as a sighting

3409
02:37:00,969 --> 02:36:58,460
went on and he took detailed notes and

3410
02:37:03,130 --> 02:37:00,979
it's heavy where you memorized the first

3411
02:37:05,349 --> 02:37:03,140
places these things flew straight

3412
02:37:07,570 --> 02:37:05,359
launching southward point being here is

3413
02:37:11,440 --> 02:37:07,580
that he made a lot of effort to enhance

3414
02:37:15,130 --> 02:37:11,450
his memory of what he saw to catalogue

3415
02:37:16,990 --> 02:37:15,140
as much as possible that's you can't say

3416
02:37:19,480 --> 02:37:17,000
that he was a copycat case that was the

3417
02:37:20,920 --> 02:37:19,490
first one sure Bruce Maccabee please

3418
02:37:23,290 --> 02:37:20,930
tell our listeners where they can find

3419
02:37:26,860 --> 02:37:23,300
more of the things you do well on the

3420
02:37:31,150 --> 02:37:26,870
internet triple w dot room ik dot 8k

3421
02:37:34,210 --> 02:37:31,160
dot-com VR UMUC dot number eight letter

3422
02:37:36,700 --> 02:37:34,220
K comm we have a link to that the parent

3423
02:37:40,120 --> 02:37:36,710
caste comm site the book is called yeah

3424
02:37:43,420 --> 02:37:40,130
yeah the eye a UFO connection and you

3425
02:37:46,330 --> 02:37:43,430
can order copy from Richard Oh impressed

3426
02:37:48,189 --> 02:37:46,340
calm or the usual offenders all right we

3427
02:37:50,139 --> 02:37:48,199
have things to tell you about us we have

3428
02:37:55,110 --> 02:37:50,149
of course the power cast plus that's

3429
02:37:57,700 --> 02:37:55,120
plus . ^ cast calm PL us dr. podcast.com

3430
02:38:00,460 --> 02:37:57,710
check out how you can get an ad-free

3431
02:38:02,740 --> 02:38:00,470
version of the power cast higher quality

3432
02:38:04,870 --> 02:38:02,750
content we're going to have other stuff

3433
02:38:07,809 --> 02:38:04,880
like after the power casts and special

3434
02:38:10,660 --> 02:38:07,819
audio/video presentations to offer chat

3435
02:38:12,580 --> 02:38:10,670
rooms and more plus dr. power cast comm

3436
02:38:15,340 --> 02:38:12,590
check out Chris O'Brien's site our

3437
02:38:17,889 --> 02:38:15,350
strange planet calm our strange planet

3438
02:38:19,689 --> 02:38:17,899
Calm get a copy of stalking the herd

3439
02:38:22,179 --> 02:38:19,699
signed and numbered if you buy the

3440
02:38:25,000 --> 02:38:22,189
hardcover version and by the way if you

3441
02:38:27,550 --> 02:38:25,010
visit our site the power cast calm and

3442
02:38:29,500 --> 02:38:27,560
you sign up for our free weekly

3443
02:38:32,290 --> 02:38:29,510
newsletter we give you something else

3444
02:38:34,750 --> 02:38:32,300
free a copy of secrets of the mysterious

3445
02:38:37,660 --> 02:38:34,760
Valley from Chris O'Brien the eBook

3446
02:38:40,540 --> 02:38:37,670
version at the para cast come for the

3447
02:38:52,871 --> 02:38:40,550
para cast newsletter dr. Bruce Maccabee

3448
02:38:59,201 --> 02:38:56,171
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3449
02:39:02,071 --> 02:38:59,211
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3450
02:39:05,801 --> 02:39:02,081
presentation of making the impossible